Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin

Indian Economy - Powering Ahead!
 The Equity Desk Forum :Economy, Markets and commodities :Indian Economy - Powering Ahead!
Message Icon Topic: RBI bars exotic forex products!!! Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 14 Next >>
Author Message
BubbleVision
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/Aug/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3142
Quote BubbleVision Replybullet Posted: 07/Feb/2008 at 1:41pm

Thanks for the concern guys, however I would like to confirm that I am NOT impacted any which way. We are from the "Buy side". This would impact the "sell side". Infact, we as a company are happy.

 

BTW, this is NOT yet confirmed, as I have NOT seen the RBI circular to this effect yet.

 

Snehal…I work in Research and NOT into marketing. btw, where are you working. Can you PM be with details?
 
I would give my opinion on RBI decision later on.  
You can't make money if you are unwilling to lose...It's like willing to breathe in but not willing to breathe out. -- ED SEYKOTA ....Read Disclaimer!
IP IP Logged
BubbleVision
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/Aug/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3142
Quote BubbleVision Replybullet Posted: 07/Feb/2008 at 3:03pm

NW18: FX mkt debates on RBI exotic derivatives ban news, seeks clarity NewsWire18, Thursday, Feb 7

 

By Prithvi Durai

MUMBAI - Leading treasurers today said they haven't received any

regulatory note or instruction from the Reserve Bank of India asking them to stop offering structured currency derivatives products.

 

But, taking note of a newspaper report that said RBI has asked banks to stop selling exotic derivatives, bankers said some banks could get pulled up by the central bank if such a ban has been enforced.

 

Business Standard newspaper today said RBI has stopped banks from

Selling exotic derivatives because companies complained to the central bank that banks instead of offering vanilla products, got into complex cross-currency derivatives.

 

These companies suffered huge losses because their currency bets went wrong, the report said without attributing to any named source. "We have not been given any circular from the RBI. However, everyone knows about these losses and people may be jittery about taking fresh derivative positions," said a dealer at a European bank. "There has been no impact on the (spot or forward dollar/rupee) market. But, the market is talking about it," said a dealer at a U.S. bank.

 

Several central bank officials NewsWire18 spoke to clarified that no circular has been issued to any bank on the matter. No official word on the newspaper report too was available. Senior treasury officials said the central bank prefers use of derivatives only for hedging currency exposures.

 

As per the comprehensive guidelines on derivatives issued in April last year, the RBI said "suitability and appropriateness" policies are of critical importance for banks that offer derivative products to companies.

 

According to RBI norms, it is imperative that banks offer derivative products in general, and structured products in particular, only to those companies who understand the nature of the risks inherent in these transactions.

 

RBI norms also say that products being offered by banks must be consistent with companies' internal policies as well as risk appetite. More recently, in its monetary policy review on Jan 29, the RBI advised banks to monitor their corporate clients' foreign exchange exposures.

 

According to RBI, the fundamental requirement for any company to undertake derivative transaction is the existence of an underlying exposure to foreign exchange risk whether on current or capital account.

 

Meanwhile, rupee was firm against dollar due to exporter dollar sales.

At 1:15PM, the rupee was at 39.50, against 39.52 on Wednesday. The most-tracked one-year forward premium was at 1.41%, compared with 1.32% Wednesday.
 
 
You can't make money if you are unwilling to lose...It's like willing to breathe in but not willing to breathe out. -- ED SEYKOTA ....Read Disclaimer!
IP IP Logged
shetty
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 21/Jul/2007
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 112
Quote shetty Replybullet Posted: 07/Feb/2008 at 3:25pm
Considering the losses suffered by the traders in the recent stock market correction the RBI will next ban retail investors from the secondary market.
IP IP Logged
Mohan
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/Feb/2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1855
Quote Mohan Replybullet Posted: 07/Feb/2008 at 9:13pm
I find it hard to believe that these corporates were unwilling participants.
We all know how much the corporates make banks comptete for their business.
 
Buyer Beware


Edited by Mohan - 07/Feb/2008 at 9:14pm
Be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy when others are fearful.
IP IP Logged
deveshkayal
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 04/Sep/2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3903
Quote deveshkayal Replybullet Posted: 11/Feb/2008 at 2:41pm
There is an article in ET which says "RBI is planning to bring in new risk disclosure norms for banks selling foreign exchange derivative products to corporates. This would enable the corporates to understand the risks which they may be exposed to when they enter into derivative transactions with banks.
 
Sources say that, legally speaking, corporates will have to bear the the losses suffered and may not be in a position to shift the blame to banks.
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett
IP IP Logged
kulman
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/Sep/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9319
Quote kulman Replybullet Posted: 13/Feb/2008 at 4:37pm

Hmmm... this is interesting. A world of Corporate Mungerilals. Add to it dangers of derivatives & power of leveraging!

Read on excerpts from ET article...
 

Companies punt in derivatives to meet guidance

 

The staff in the derivatives sales team of a British Bank, which is a relatively recent entrant to India, was pulling the leg of a new recruit. The new recruit had been told that the CFO of an auto ancillary company loved new and fancy derivatives structures and was always willing to buy. The new recruit was told that selling a new derivative trade to this CFO would be the best way to open his sales career in this bank. Unfortunately, the CFO did not buy. “You have no future in this place,” joked the recruits’ colleagues, “you couldn’t even sell a structure to him”!

As events unfolded, this bank and indeed many other banks, including several new generation private banks and foreign banks with large presence in India, have realised that this joke is hiding a grim reality. An entire rash of small and medium-sized companies are sitting on loss-making positions on their balance sheets and are trying to figure out ways so that they come out of this clean and so are their bankers who sold them these instruments.

Even for the third quarter of FY08, corporate India is showing a slowdown in sales but other income component through forex is still high. “People in the forex market are calling it QSQT (quarter se quarter tak) effect,” says a forex consultant, making a cheeky allusion to Aamir Khan’s first film.

Under pressure to deliver numbers to meet profit promises (guidance), companies have been encouraging their CFOs to punt in the derivatives market.

One of the reasons that has prevented the entire episode from going public is that companies do not have to show notional losses (mark-to-market) regarding derivatives.

This has not happened in all cases though. In some cases CFOs have actually misled the board about their positions, for example, Hexaware.

 

Sundaram’s case shows why CFOs and banks ended up doing derivative trades that perhaps were not entirely appropriate. “We did not even have a formal banking relationship with ICICI. When we moved to a new premise, ICICI Bank was next door and so we opened an account there because of proximity. Soon they started making business visits and invited our CFO to a seminar where he was shown how these derivatives can make good money for the company…..” says Amrutlal Shah, director of Sundaram Multipaper.

ICICI Bank on its part says Sundaram knew exactly what it was doing.

 

Never take a bet you can’t afford to lose


Take one favourite derivative trade to understand why many companies had loans costing 10-12% per annum. These firms were beginning to hurt from the way interest costs were cutting into their profits. Many auto component and IT companies had revenues coming in dollars, and because with each passing money, a dollar was buying less rupees (rising rupee), the profits of these companies were declining. For instance, a company with Rs 200 crore in debt raised at 10% did not know how to reduce their interest costs.

Banks came to rescue of companies struggling with these problems. To reduce the interest outflow, they had to earn an interest “inflow”. The easiest and least risky way of doing this is to borrow $50 million in the currency of a country with low interest rate —mostly it was Swiss Franc where interest rates were 2%. An equivalent amount was lent in the currency of a country with higher interest rate, usually dollar where interest rate was 6%.

The interest rate differential (of 4% p.a.) multiplied by $50 million was the clear profit that reduced the actual interest impact. This nice profit can be wiped out if two chosen currencies change in relative value sharply. That is why the Swiss Franc (Swissie)/US dollar pair was chosen. Only once in the last 20 years had the Swiss Franc moved out of the band of 1.20-1.10 dollar per Franc.

Lure of lower cost protection


Having sold this “free lunch”, banks told corporates that they should buy a little insurance, just in case in there was an untoward movement in the Swiss Franc currency. To do this, companies paid a premium to buy the right to purchase Swissie if the currency appreciates. However, in order to reduce the cost, clients were offered the knock-out option. This options and the protection offered by them disappear if a certain event takes place. The event defined in some of these options was Swissie touching 1.09. Since at the time of entering, the option this looked extremely remote.

The same trade could have been created by combining a client buying a vanilla Swissie Call option (say at strike of 1.17) and selling a Swissie call option with strike of 1.17, but which only knocks in at 1.09. This cancelled the buy call option with a sell call option and exposed the client to a risk of appreciating Swissie, a completely unforeseen event.

According to RBI rules, an Indian corporate can never be the net receiver of premium in options. In simple words, corporates can buy “insurance” but they can’t sell “insurance” because the extent of financial loss can be very high in the latter. But if a corporate wants to make the entire trade a zero-cost one, it simply starts writing options to receive premiums that will nullify the cost of protection.

In spite of all the protection that companies tried to take, the rise of the Swissie was not taken into consideration. The Swissie moved by 10% over the last one year and is presently trading at 1.09 against the dollar.

The moment the Swissie breached the 1.10 level, the right to sell Swissie was cancelled and companies stopped receiving premiums. But the other leg of the “zero-cost structure” remained intact and premium payouts increased.
With every rise in this currency, the mark to market losses for Indian corporates will increase. They can choose to cancel the contracts but then they will have to show the actual cash loss in their books, so many are sitting on the losses and waiting for the tide to turn. But in such volatile markets, banks do not want to take a chance and thus they are forcing the corporates for margin calls. That’s why you see all these disputed now coming out.

One CFO of an auto component company that makes tonnes of money on hedging, used to go around mocking his production plant heads, saying he could deliver more profit in one quarter than what the production chaps could deliver in a year.


The sad fact is that most boards do not even understand the complexities of these trades.


If this issue blows up, then most boards will have no option (pun unintended) but to appoint experts to examine derivative deals before they are signed. And banks will have to do some soul searching on whether their sold products to people who did not understand them.

 

 

 

Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards
IP IP Logged
kulman
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/Sep/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9319
Quote kulman Replybullet Posted: 13/Feb/2008 at 5:29pm
One CFO of an auto component company that makes tonnes of money on hedging, used to go around mocking his production plant heads, saying he could deliver more profit in one quarter than what the production chaps could deliver in a year.
 
That explains slowdown of industrial activity in India. With top management glued to Forex trading screens, middle-management secretly doing day-trading on NSE/BSE ....kaam kaun karega??
 
 
 
 


Edited by kulman - 13/Feb/2008 at 5:30pm
Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards
IP IP Logged
kulman
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/Sep/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9319
Quote kulman Replybullet Posted: 13/Feb/2008 at 7:51pm
Oh dear oh dear....We are not following only the West but East too....
 
The case surrounding former SembCorp Marine finance head, Wee Sing Guan, whose trades with 11 banks could result in losses of US$303 million, has taken some startling twists.

Mr Wee now claims that all the foreign exchange trades he made for SembMarine's subsidiary Jurong Shipyard Pte Ltd were authorised by Jurong's board.

Jurong, in turn, says that the trades were unauthorised and that Mr Wee himself gave its representatives an account of what had happened in the lead-up to the losses. In an unsigned statement, it says, he spoke of how BNP Paribas, a bank that is now trying to recover some US$50.7 million that was lost on the currency trades, introduced him to 'really toxic exotic transactions'.

 
 
Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 14 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



This page was generated in 0.061 seconds.
Bookmark this Page