Print Page | Close Window

Asian Electronics:Plastic to Energy!

Printed From: The Equity Desk
Category: Investment Ideas - Creating winning portfolios!
Forum Name: Stock Synopsis
Forum Discription: A bried discussion of companies on very specific matters. Normally this is the prelude for further research as always members would be discussing quality companies with good management only
URL: http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1102
Printed Date: 02/May/2024 at 6:04pm


Topic: Asian Electronics:Plastic to Energy!
Posted By: deveshkayal
Subject: Asian Electronics:Plastic to Energy!
Date Posted: 22/Jul/2007 at 10:51pm

Asian Electronics Ltd.(AEL) is into design, manufacturing and marketing of energy efficient products. It offers efficient and high quality luminaries for applications in the domestic, corporate, industrial, floodlighting, landscaping areas and for special applications as in clean rooms in the pharmaceutical industry.

 

Current Price – Rs.1028

Market Cap – Rs. 1475 Crs

EPS – Rs.47.87 for FY07 (Rs.28.13 for FY 06)

 

In early July, AEL acquired Green Hydrocarbons Pvt.Ltd and the operations division of US Intruments Pvt. Ltd. The company has also formed a joint venture with Cimelia Resource Recovery Pte.Ltd, a 100% subsidiary of Enviro Hub Ltd., listed on the Singapore Stock Exchange. What is AEL gameplan? Green Hydrocarbons is in the business of converting waste into energy. According to AEL, the conversion can be 100%. AEL expects that in the next two-three years it can generate 800 MW of energy from this process, which will add more than Rs.1000 crore of revenues. Cimelia deals with e-waste management. Spread over 200,000 sq. ft it is the largest e-waste management facility in Singapore with a capacity to recycle about 25000 tonnes of e-waste per annum. This JV will combine AEL’s plastic-to-fuel technology with the strong corporate brand name of Cimelia to sell this technology in eight eight countries from Far East Asia to Brazil.

 

This technology is not a pie in the sky. It has been developed by Prof Alka Zadgaonkar, head of Dept. of Applied Chemistry at the Nagpur based GH Raisoni College of Engineering. She has invented an environment friendly process for disposal of waste plastic by using ‘catalytic-additive’ which is different from the generally existing pyrolytic processes. The process yielded liquid hydrocarbons, gas and residual coke. This process was subsequently tested and enhanced by the R&D department of Indian Oil Corporation and applied on a commercial basis with funding from SBI. AEL is making machinery for this breakthrough project. The patented process has undergone rigorous testing to ensure zero emission. The process operates in a closed loop and is therefore 100% eco-friendly, causing no pollution in any form to the environment. The hydrocarbon generated is apparently very rich in calorific value. It has as much as 11000 kcal in liquid form and upto 25000 kcal in gaseous form, totaling approx. 13000-14000 kcal per kg of plastic. It can be used for generation of power or for transportation with modification. It can also be used for downstream operation in refineries or in the plastic industry. AEL has two JVs with Home Solutions (Future Group)

 

Meanwhile, AEL’s lighting business is doing very well. It had an order book of Rs.400 crore as the end of its March quarter. Its recent growth has been very strong with revenues growing at an average of 88% over the past fice quarters while operating profit grew by 78% over the same period. AEL’s operating margin is healthy 19%. For the year ended March 07, AEL’s turnover had jumped 140% and net profit was up over 165%.

 

Given the high price of oil and rising cost of all forms of energy, energy saving is a hot area. AEL is the only listed company focused on technology driven energy efficient products. And now, if this plastic to energy technology turns out to be viable on a larger commercial scale, the stock can go a long way.

 

ABN AMRO MF seems to be the most bullish on this stock.

 

For more visit http://www.aelgroup.com/ - http://www.aelgroup.com/

 

Source: Moneylife

---------------------------------

Comments welcome from TEDdies...I know us121 and kaizen are holding this stock..



-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett



Replies:
Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 22/Jul/2007 at 10:54pm

Excerpts from CNBC-TV18’s exclusive interview with Suresh Shah:

Q: Where did the key growth driver come in for you?

 

A: We have just acquired a company, which is in the energy business. We were already in the energy business and this is now producing energy.

 

Previously, we were doing only energy saving; now we are producing energy and that is the driver.

 

Q: What was the cost of this acquisition that you did and by when will you completely integrate the company with yourself?

 

A: As far as cost of acquisition to Asian Electronics is concerned, the board has approved the acquisition subject to valuation and valuation has been given to independent agencies.

 

Q: Is this going to be funded by the USD 60 million that the board has approved, in terms of funding in April 2007, or are you going to raise some fresh funds to fund this?

 

A: We are going to do the stock swap. We do not know what the valuation is yet, but whatever the valuation is, Asian Electronics is acquiring the rights for this technology.

 

Q: What are the sales and profits of this company?

 

A: This is a start up company, which has a pilot operation and was producing diesel from plastic waste. Plastic waste is converted into green hydrocarbon and that is how we are converting it into plastic.

 

Plastic is made from hydrocarbons and here is the process whereby plastic is converted back to hydrocarbons. So, the cost of energy, which we produce, will be much less compared to normal diesel or normal petrol. 

 

Q: What does this amalgamation mean in terms of your results for the next financial year?

 

A: I cannot comment on the numbers yet but it will be quite substantially good for the next financial year.

 

Q: Would it be fair to imagine that you could possibly double your topline in FY08?

 

A: Probably or more than that.

 

Q: What is your current orderbook as it stands right now and in how long is that executable?

 

A: We have been talking to people for the current order book. This is a new technology and we have already sold about Rs 150 crore worth of products. Orders have been executed already.

 

Q: What is the total standing order that you will execute over the next 18-20 months?

 

A: We are looking at something like 800 megawatt in next three years. One megawatt is just like a windmill, one megawatt is about Rs 5-6 crore.

 

Q: How do you intend to go ahead and raise USD 60 million and how soon?

 

A: Instead of raising the money, we are buying this technology through the stock swap. That means we are acquiring this technology and are issuing Asian shares.




-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: omshivaya
Date Posted: 22/Jul/2007 at 11:02pm

Devesh ji,

 
Some quick questions:
1) What has been the rate of growth in EPS, for past 2-3 years for AEL?
 
2) What kind of growth in EPS can be expected safely in the next 3-4 years for AEL?
 
3)What is the addressable market in Rupee/Dollar terms, for the field AEL is into?
 
4)Is AEL the leader in whatever it is into? If yes, how close is its nearest competitor in revenue terms?
 
5) What is the vision that AEL has set for itself, for let's say till 2010 or for next 4-5 years?
 
 
5) Your comments on the management or any views on the management that can be got from somewhere?
 
Thanks in advance. Please do provide a detailed view(as much as you can) .
 
Smile
 
Also, what got you interested into this one?


-------------
The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it


Posted By: kg
Date Posted: 22/Jul/2007 at 12:34pm
one of my friend had advised me to buy this at 650 but i missed the bus as usual ...

-------------
Lets rock


Posted By: India_Bull
Date Posted: 22/Jul/2007 at 3:33am
Well, this is one of my early exist.  missed multibagger , I sold at 520  with a resonable profit , its very true that one has to hold winners . Th company fundamentals are good and definatley will give good returns (But also remember the stck has run up a lot already !!) Best time is to buy during market crashes !!1

-------------
India_Bull forever Bull !
www.kapilcomedynights.com


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 22/Jul/2007 at 10:15am
Shivanand Mankekar is invested into this one.

-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 22/Jul/2007 at 11:29am
Shivanand Mankekar is invested into this one
-----------------------------------------------------
Woooooooooooooooow...mera nishana sahi jage par!!! One of the greatest investor has invested in this stock merits more attention.......


-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 22/Jul/2007 at 11:45am

He holds exact 1% (1,50,000 shares) in AEL.



-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 12:26pm
What has been the rate of growth in EPS, for past 2-3 years for AEL?
EPS Rs.51.10 for FY07 (Diluted), Rs.24.28 for FY06, Rs.12.57 for FY05..So the company is growing by 100%.
 
What kind of growth in EPS can be expected safely in the next 3-4 years for AEL?
My sense is that it should grow in the 70-100% for the next few years.
 
What is the addressable market in Rupee/Dollar terms, for the field AEL is into?
I have to find out this...It should be huge..
 
Is AEL the leader in whatever it is into? If yes, how close is its nearest competitor in revenue terms?
AEL is the only listed player in this space...So no comparison...
 
 Your comments on the management or any views on the management that can be got from somewhere?
Mankekar dada has invested in the stock..needless to say more...I didnt know Mankekar has invested into this one..After knowing that ABN Amro holds means management is good...thats what i look for if any MF holds the stock..
 
Also, what got you interested into this one?
Plastic to energy technology...excellent business model...no pollution..great revenues expected by the management...Power shortage in India and high oil prices...but have to find out the cost of generating this energy...


-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: omshivaya
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 1:13pm

A PE-rerating could happen as it seems cheap at TTM. Thank you very much for the information Devesh ji, appreciate it really!



-------------
The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it


Posted By: tyler_durden
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 3:10pm
up 3 % today...

-------------
If you aren't fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm.


Posted By: India_Bull
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 6:16pm
Soem smart people are reading thru the  TED notes seriously  (I wonder they are not rerading Dish TV ??)

-------------
India_Bull forever Bull !
www.kapilcomedynights.com


Posted By: tyler_durden
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 6:43pm
Originally posted by SANDEEP

Soem smart people are reading thru the  TED notes seriously  (I wonder they are not rerading Dish TV ??)
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
ayega...iska no. bhi ayega...


-------------
If you aren't fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm.


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 10:05pm
This are the two important points which management has mentioned in that CNBC interview:
So, the cost of energy, which we produce, will be much less compared to normal diesel or normal petrol. 
We are looking at something like 800 megawatt in next three years. One megawatt is just like a windmill, one megawatt is about Rs 5-6 crore
--------------------------------------------------------------
4000 crs in the next three years while the sales for FY07 was 367 crs..that means ten fold rise in turnover in just three years..thats amazing!!!!
 
Also, R&D is undertaken to process all other wastes such as refinery waste, e-waste,etc. The company is going to benefit from the carbon credits accruing to this new JV.
 
Mankekar bought AEL in the first quarter of this calendar year...Re-Rating is imminent....This stock will go neck-to-neck with Pantaloon or even more than that from returns point of view...
 
Any idea on how much plastic waste is generated in India????


-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 10:16pm
Must read the great story of Alka Zadgoankar
 
http://www.goodnewsindia.com/index.php/Magazine/story/alkaZ/ - http://www.goodnewsindia.com/index.php/Magazine/story/alkaZ/


-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 10:26pm
We are looking at something like 800 megawatt in next three years. One megawatt is just like a windmill, one megawatt is about Rs 5-6 crore
--------
4000 crs in the next three years while the sales for FY07 was 367 crs..that means ten fold rise in turnover in just three years..thats amazing!!!!
 
================================
 
Devesh, in my opinion what it actually means could be: to put wind mill of 1MW capacity it costs Rs. 5~6 Crores.
 
Please do check again & get reconfirmation from others on TED/company management.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


-------------
Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 10:30pm
That per MW cost at Rs 5 cr assesement is correct.This coukd be a dhamaka really!!!

-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 10:31pm
10,000 tonnes of plastic waste is generated every day in India.....

-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: omshivaya
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 11:47pm
This one seems like a realy hot steaming chilly potato. The best part about it is..is that, it is trading at 13X forward PE, considering an EPS growth of 56% for FY08.
 
Mr. Shah the promoter has been in this industry for a long time and I think his wife is also a co-partner in this firm. Mr. Shah is not from an IIT/IIM background, though he has done M.S. from some US university. Ditto for Mrs. Shah.
 
One thing that would clear 90% of my doubt is: how good is their execution capability/past-track record of execution. Can we take take their word for it: "to do 800 MW in next 3 years?". Here is where the past management execution capability would come in handy.
 
TEDdies may focus on this and find out what all needs to be known on the above regard.
 
Devesh ji, who is its nearest competitior(even if not listed) and how much is their revenue any ideas?
 
This stock is on my hot radar now.


-------------
The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it


Posted By: India_Bull
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 12:40pm
Well Deveshjee,
 
Thanks for introducing this topic, I was not aware of the developments in the waste management but it looks quite interesting  Is Alka on the board or has equity participaion or what is her  role in this venture ? From this info what I get is AEL will make the machinery for her process.
 
Any more info is most welcome !!


-------------
India_Bull forever Bull !
www.kapilcomedynights.com


Posted By: ndzapak
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 12:52pm

Devesh, interesting idea

 

But I will try to play devil’s advocate here  with few posers

 

What is the connection between Asian Electronics, Green Hydrocabons  and the inventor of the technology,Professor Alka Zadgaonkar of the Raisoni College of Engineering, Nagpur.  Infact she has floated her own company Unique Waste Plastic Management & Research Co. Pvt.  Ltd. Really the technology is with her and Asian Electronics is merely proposing to manufacture the equipments. The really work in the conversion is done by the catalytic additive which is known only to the inventor.

So moat in this case lies with the inventor and not Asian Electronics

 

Asian Electronics management also was not very forthcoming with the valuation for acquiring Green Hydrocarbons in the interview with CNBC.

 

The conversion is yielding  liquid hydrocarbons which can be used as a substitute forDiesel. The present proved commercial capacity of the conversion plant is only 5 MTof plastic waste. Looking at this, the figure of 800 MW is suspect, plus the revenue at5 to 6 crores per MW  that supposedly will accrue to Asian Electronics is also highly suspect. Keeping in mind that it is really catalytic additive which is key , most of the revenue should accrue to the inventor.

 

Also the conversion process itself will consume some amount of energy, so it appearsto me that is more of a solution for disposal of plastic waste ( which is great no doubt)rather than a panacea for energy shortage.

 

What is this Green Hydrocarbons, google search is leading me no to no company website but only to one  article which I will post here.



-------------
the Equitydesk is the best


Posted By: ndzapak
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 12:53pm

Plastic: Is it the new black gold?

By: Andre Lee     

 

 Imagine a process able to clear our environment of plastic wastes, creating jobs in waste management at the same time producing resources such as petrol. Mauritius is on its way to embarking on a similar project to turning plastic waste into petrol.

 

According to the report from the Ministry of environment, Mauritius produces some 120 tons of plastic wastes daily amounting to a total of 43,800 tons of waste every year of which only 4%, representing some 164 tons, are recycled. In 2006, the population’s consumption of non-biodegradable plastic products amounted to some 70 million Polyethylene Terephthalate (PET) bottles, 7 million PVC bottles, and 113 million plastic bags.

 

Now just imagine a process able to clear our environment of plastic wastes, creating jobs in waste management and collection and at the same time bringing useful resources such as petrol and gas, which can be beneficial to our economy. The Liquid Hydrocarbons pilot project proposed by the Green Hydrocarbons (Mtius) Ltd has the ambitious desire of turning our plastic wastes into hydrocarbon petrol.

 

The environment friendly project, realized with the collaboration of the initiators of the project in India, Unique Waste Plastic Management & Research CO. Pvt. Ltd., will enable Mauritius to get rid of its plastic wastes while at the same time providing resources such as petrol. The initiator of the project will bring all the technology and equipment necessary for the setting of the pilot plant while the government, in collaboration with Green Hydrocarbons Ltd., will provide the necessary location and licenses.

 

The ratio of the conversion of the plastic waste into petrol is one kilogram of plastic into the volume of 1000 cc of petrol. The pilot project will hence be converting some 2.5 tons of plastic wastes daily into some 25,000 liters of petrol and other by-products. This project is a green alternative to the palliative solutions that have been found so far to deal with plastic wastes. Land filling, incineration, recycling, gasification and blast furnace have shown their limits in the treatment of plastic wastes.

 

Recycling is unfortunately not a practical solution in that the cost of collection is quite high; there is a limited market for it, with an absence of marketing. Moreover, plastic can only be recycled three to four times, after that it loses its strength and can’t be recycled. The project realized with the collaboration of Indian partners is due to start in the course of the year 2007, once the EIA obtained.

 

Beginnings

The concepts of plastic conversion into hydrocarbons was elaborated by Professor Alka Zadgaonkar of the Raisoni College of Engineering, Nagpur in Indian, in the year 1995. While giving a lecture on Applied Chemistry, she came up with the idea of turning plastic back into hydrocarbons. She worked with a team on the formula and in 2004; they succeeded in turning 300mg of plastic into hydrocarbon liquids

 

Unique Waste Plastic Management & Research Co. Pvt. Ltd of India later launched a pilot project where some 5,000 tons of plastic wastes were converted everyday. The process was later extended to treat 25,000 tons daily in 2006 and the objective of the project is to treat some 450,000 tons. She asked for analysis by Indian Oil and made a number of recommendations for the use of the final products.

After about one year of operation, the project was realized with the help of loans. Representatives of the State Bank of India acknowledged that the project is already running on profit, thus proving the efficiency of the method. The world produces no less than 60% more plastic wastes than it did some ten years back with a production of 100 million tons every year. India produces 10,000 tons of plastic wastes everyday which 40% are recycled.

This project has enabled India to better manage the country’s plastic wastes while at the same time creating jobs. Actually India sells its hydrocarbon at 40% to 50% less than normal diesel. The technology is presently being exported to other regions such as Rajasthan and even to America; for instance, some hospitals are being operated using their own wastes.

The investments for the pilot project in Mauritius are estimated to around 100 to 300 millions Rupees. Land filling, incineration and recycling 4% are presently being used but they do not resolve the problem of environmental damage caused by plastic. The Waste to Compost project, will however give a new dimension to the processing of plastic in that hydrocarbon and the other by-products used as compost

 

André Lee is the Internet Marketing consultant, Advisors to Tour Operators and Ticketing Agents. More of his articles are available at http://mauritravel.com/ - http://mauritravel.com/ - http://mauritravel.com

Article Source: http://www.articlebiz.com/ - http://www.ArticleBiz.com

Link: http://www.articlebiz.com/article/69721-2-plastic-is-it-the-new-black-gold/



-------------
the Equitydesk is the best


Posted By: ndzapak
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 12:54pm

What is the connection between Asian Electronics, Green Hydrocabons  and the inventor of the technology,Professor Alka Zadgaonkar of the Raisoni College of Engineering, Nagpur.

It seems that Asian Electroncs has acquired the patented-waste plastic to fuel technology (uses the Alka Zadgaonkar process) in December 2006 going by this artice in DNA Money.

It does not mention the cost, I am surprised why would the inventor sell if the technologyhas so much potential. Are there any royalty payments ?

Here's the article in DNA Money

 Waste to riches

When the market has given an average return of 8.54% from January 2007 till date, a return of 124% is more than appealing. A case in point is Asian Electronics (AEL), which manufactures energy efficient lighting products. The stock delivered returns to the extent of 57.98% in the last one month itself.

Expectations of good results and developments that could place the company in the big league seem to be the reasons behind the dramatic rise in AEL’s stock.

On July 5, AEL reported its performance for quarter ended March 2007 (Q4) wherein revenues shot up 162.15% to Rs 150.21 crore. To an extent, the growth is also on account of the merger of the lighting division of Asian Raymond Lighting Pvt Ltd. Even otherwise, the performance is good, thanks to the lighting segment, which did very well and reported a 91% growth in revenues

Further, AEL is expanding its scope from lighting to other services in the energy space. It acquired the patented-waste plastic to fuel technology (uses the Alka Zadgaonkar process) in December 2006. The Zadgaonkar process is a unique technique by which plastic waste can be converted into hydrocarbons (fuel) for generating power or with some modification can be used in downstream operations in refinery or by the plastic industry.

AEL sold 24 MW plants in Q4, which contributed Rs 142 crore to revenues. Total expenditure for Q4 rose at a relatively slower pace by 108.83% and thus, operating profit margins were up 1,797 percentage points to 29.63%.

In April 2007, AEL announced the acquisition of Green Hydro Carbons Pvt Ltd, which is also in the business of converting waste to fuel and is the operational division of US Instruments Pvt Ltd.

AEL also announced a joint venture (JV) with a publicly-listed Singaporean company, Enviro-Hub. With this, AEL plans to take its waster-energy business offshore to 8 more countries along with Singapore. The JV, to be formed through Cimelia, a 100% subsidiary of Enviro-Hub, fits well with AEL’s innovative fuel technology. Cimelia has a good brand name in the recycling industry and e-waste management; its e-waste management business has a turnover of around Singapore $100 million.

Over a period of three years, the company expects to sell 800 MW plants. Girish Solanki, analyst, Angel Broking says, “Even if we assume that the company sells these plants at Rs 5 crore each. It means the total revenue will touch Rs 4,000 crore.” The company management, though, expects revenues to double in the next one year.

At Rs 1,001, the stock trades at 19.6 times its consolidated 2006-07 earnings. The company’s recent move to split the stock (2:1 ratio) will improve liquidity and, is seen as a positive move by markets.

Source : dnaindia.com



-------------
the Equitydesk is the best


Posted By: us121
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 1:04am
Originally posted by omshivaya

my doubt is: how good is their execution capability/past-track record of execution. Can we take take their word for it:


this is from my portfolio check thread:
http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=894&KW=us121&PN=4


-------------

member_profile.asp?PF=259&FID=42 - us121
Senior Member
Senior%20Member


Joined: 03/Dec/2006
Online Status: Online
Posts: 215
new_reply_form.asp?M=Q&PID=29175&PN=4&TR=29">Quote us121   new_reply_form.asp?PID=29175&PN=4&TR=29">Reply forum_posts.asp?TID=894&PID=29175#29175">bullet Posted: 07/Jul/2007 at 9:35am
Originally posted by basant

 
SInce you own Asian Electronics any idea how good their bio diesel foray is? Can it become as large as Praj?


Basantji,
1. Now that all the details about their new business is out in news paper, let me confess that i had no clue of it before i read them in news papers recently.
2. The reason of me holding this stock is belief in this management being progressive and visionary and the kind of consistent performance they have given for decades.
3. This stock was introduced to us may be more than a decade back by my friend/ TED Manish Dave and his brother. that time they were just making capacitor.
4. However, which ever the business they have entered they have excelled.
5. I liked their present move in energy saving lighting system and their tie up with westinghouse (i hope name is correct).
6. Though i do not hold large quantity, i started making present purchase about more than a yr back, when we called one of the energy auditor to our office and the way he described about asian electronics products being used for this purpose and the result/ break even being available.
7. last but not the least was their success in getting the state wide project in Maharashtra for energy saving lighting project as well as the axe theory of their growing market in malls/ multiplexes etc.


infact their plastic fuel foray, i came to know with your post only on this thread.



-------------
ABILITY will get u at d top. CHARACTER will retain u at d top


Posted By: ndzapak
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 1:13am

Another article from DNA Money, this one was

in Oct,2005

 

Now in Nagpur: Fuel from plastic waste

Jaideep Hardikar

Monday, October 24, 2005  01:01 IST

NAGPUR: Fuel from plastic waste is a reality — a commercial reality.  The Unique Waste Plastic Management and Research Company Pvt Ltd of Dr Alka and Umesh Zadgaonkar, is producing 5,000 litres of fuel from plastic trash and running a profitable business of selling it to industrial units in Butibori, outside the city.

Away from the public gaze and doubting Thomases after their public claims in 2003, the Zadgaonkars have been producing fuel from plastic waste since March this year. If they have not made a noise about it, it’s because they are drowning in business enquiries and expansion plans. By December, they want to expand capacity five-fold to 25 MT  of plastic waste (25,000 litres daily) — and ultimately grow it to 450 MT.

The couple set up the plant at the industrial estate here in 2004 with a Rs5.5 crore loan from the SBI. Industrial units in the area are running their captive power plants on this fuel and are happy with its pricing and performance. The Zadgaonkars’ fuel (it’s not yet been given a name) is priced at Rs30 per litre, Rs8 less than diesel.

Though it is not yet vehicle-ready, the fuel scores over petrol/diesel because it ignites  faster. Besides, several test reports by government and non-government institutions say it has smaller sulphur content and low reaction temperature. Above all, the Maharashtra Pollution Control Board has found that the conversion of plastic waste into fuel is non-polluting.

Engine output is nearly as much as produced by other fuels. A test drive on a Kinetic Honda gave a mileage of 44 km/ltr on plastic fuel as compared to 44.4km/ltr on petrol. It accelerated from 0 to 60 km in 18 secs against 22.5 secs on petrol.

“We can’t imagine a day without plastics. So why not convert it into something more useful?” asks Alka. And for the Maharashtra government, which has announced a near-impossible-to-implement ban on plastic, here’s a good reason to rethink the ban.  

Facts

*Zadgaonkars’ plant went into commercial production in March 2005

*Producing 5000 litres fuel from 5MT of waste daily

*Fuel has not yet been given a brand name

*Presently can be used for seven functions such as running gensets

*Can also run vehicles after more refining. Has better combustibility than petrol

*Bike did 0-60 in 18 secs on this fuel against 22 secs on petrol

The journey from lab to plant

2000: Dr Alka Zadgaonkar, an applied chemistry professor from Nagpur, invents a catalyst that can convert plastic waste into fuel in her lab.

2001: With husband Umesh, Alka files for national and international patents.

2003: Government of India invites Alka to demonstrate her invention in New Delhi. She does so successfully. Ties up with Indian Oil Corporation for further testing and fine tuning the product. But fresh from the Ramar Pillai con job (where he fooled the nation with his claims of extracting petrol from water), there is heavy scepticism about their claim.

2004: Zadgaonkars decide to drop out of limelight. Set up a plant for commercial production at Butibori industrial estate outside Nagpur with a Rs5.5 crore loan from SBI. Go about their job without attracting much attention from media or scientific tribe.

2005: By early March they start producing 5000 litres of fuel. Are selling it to about 30 units in the MIDC area for running captive power generators. The most critical stage of all inventions—commercial viability—is established.
Even SBI in its project review report praises the couple for running a profitable business. Now plans are underway to up production five times by December.

State govt takes note. Signs up with the couple to develop the market for the fuel through the Maharashtra Energy Development Agency. MEDA is flooded with enquiries from private energy firms within and outside country.



-------------
the Equitydesk is the best


Posted By: Mr. V
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 1:21am
Originally posted by deveshkayal

Must read the great story of Alka Zadgoankar
 
http://www.goodnewsindia.com/index.php/Magazine/story/alkaZ/ - http://www.goodnewsindia.com/index.php/Magazine/story/alkaZ/
 
Very inspiring read.


Posted By: omshivaya
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 1:46am

It seems that Asian Electroncs has acquired the patented-waste plastic to fuel technology (uses the Alka Zadgaonkar process) in December 2006 going by this artice in DNA Money.

It does not mention the cost, I am surprised why would the inventor sell if the technologyhas so much potential. Are there any royalty payments ?

_________________________________________________________

Maybe Alka jee is getting an equity stake in the company as payment, rather than cash!! Just a guess!
 
Here are some other things I found out from the DRHP of AEL(apart from the waste to energy part. It relates to the current core business of AEL):
 

Global Lighting Industry

According to AEL, the global lighting fixtures industry is currently valued at approximately $ 70 billion and is expected to grow to about $ 90 billion in 2010.

Indian Lighting Industry

The Indian lighting industry has been growing rapidly at about 20% p.a. for the last 2-3 years and is currently valued at Rs. 45 billion. The industry can be classified into the following segments:

According to the Company, as a result of a booming economy and rapidly increasing industrialization and commercialization, the lighting industry in India could grow handsomely at a CAGR of around 12% and touch US$ 6 billion in 2020. Also, it believes that the value of ESCO contracts over the next 15 years could be around US$ 4.5 billion.

India currently has one of the lowest electricity penetration rates across the globe. Increasing demand due to rising population, rapidly growing economy and increasing levels of industrialization and commercialization along with lack of adequate investments in generation and distribution capacity have resulted in a yawning gap between demand and supply for power. As per the latest available economic data for the quarter April to June 2006, the average energy shortage was 9.3% and the peak shortage was 12.8%.

Further, transmission and distribution losses in India are exceptionally high at over 23% as compared to several developed countries where such losses are in the range of 10% to 15%. As a result of these inefficiencies, the cost of power to the Indian consumer, residential and commercial, is amongst the highest across the world.

The industrial sector in India is a major energy user, accounting for about 48% of commercial energy consumption. This sector has become increasingly energy-intensive over time, which is partly due to investments made in basic and energy intensive industries due to the emphasis laid in the past development plans on achieving self-reliance.

There are wide variations in energy consumption among different units within the same industry using comparable technology. The energy savings potential in this sector is estimated to be 25% making it the sector having the maximum potential in the economy. Despite the large potential for energy efficiency investments having financially attractive returns, only a small fraction is actually being tapped. There is, thus, a need for concerted efforts, whether voluntary or otherwise, on energy, efficiency in the industrial sector.



-------------
The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it


Posted By: omshivaya
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 2:43am
Basant sir,
 
After going thru the whole thread from start to last & from whatever information source you have, what do you feel about this company: Asian Electronics. Your wisdom and experience will help a lot in this regard. Please take your time answering if you need to!!!


-------------
The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it


Posted By: omshivaya
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 3:17am
Originally posted by us121

my doubt is: how good is their execution capability/past-track record of execution. Can we take take their word for it:

this is from my portfolio check thread: http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=894&KW=us121&PN=4 - http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=894&KW=us121&PN=4  

 
Thanks for that US121 jee, appreciate it!!


-------------
The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it


Posted By: omshivaya
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 10:20am
Sab chup-chap ho gaye hai Bhai. Wah, ye to kamaal ho gaya!

-------------
The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 10:24am
Seems very impressive and promising to me from what I have heard - Courtsey Devesh.

-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: omshivaya
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 10:27am
Not interested in taking a stake Basant sir? I ask since the potential is really huge and here we have a company, which deviates from our usual TED XI well. Can we be the different frogs?

-------------
The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 10:56am
No yaar I do not want to buy something which I do not understand in depth. Normally the way I look at it is if I am asked to manage the company can I run it with some help and in this case that does not seem possible.

-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 11:15am
Originally posted by ndzapak

Devesh, interesting idea

 

But I will try to play devil’s advocate here  with few posers

 

What is the connection between Asian Electronics, Green Hydrocabons  and the inventor of the technology,Professor Alka Zadgaonkar of the Raisoni College of Engineering, Nagpur.  Infact she has floated her own company Unique Waste Plastic Management & Research Co. Pvt.  Ltd. Really the technology is with her and Asian Electronics is merely proposing to manufacture the equipments. The really work in the conversion is done by the catalytic additive which is known only to the inventor.

So moat in this case lies with the inventor and not Asian Electronics

 Enviro-Hub’s subsidiary Cimelia Resource Recovery will hold 50% stake in GHL and the remaining 50% will be owned by Shah-controlled companies, AEL and US Instruments. “In US Instruments, Mrs Zadgaonkar holds 26% stake. US Instruments has got the manufacturing licence from Unique Waste Plastic Management and Research, a company owned by Mrs Zadgaonkar and family,” said the official.(ET)

 

Asian Electronics management also was not very forthcoming with the valuation for acquiring Green Hydrocarbons in the interview with CNBC.

GHL is a private company.There remains some confidential clause when acquiring a pvt co. Adlabs did not disclose how much they paid to acquire Synergy Communication.

The conversion is yielding  liquid hydrocarbons which can be used as a substitute forDiesel. The present proved commercial capacity of the conversion plant is only 5 MTof plastic waste. Looking at this, the figure of 800 MW is suspect, plus the revenue at5 to 6 crores per MW  that supposedly will accrue to Asian Electronics is also highly suspect. Keeping in mind that it is really catalytic additive which is key , most of the revenue should accrue to the inventor.

5 mt was a demo plant.They are setting up 25mt plant.

Also the conversion process itself will consume some amount of energy, so it appearsto me that is more of a solution for disposal of plastic waste ( which is great no doubt)rather than a panacea for energy shortage.

 

What is this Green Hydrocarbons, google search is leading me no to no company website but only to one  article which I will post here.

Green Hydrocarbons is in the business of converting waste into energy.


-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: omshivaya
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 11:18am

Basant sir

--------------
That's a pretty nice way of looking at it. But why do you feel: "You can't run Asian Elec. with some help". Pantaloon is a huge company with so much diversity, formats, complexities and compared to that ASEL seems mini.
 
Just want to know what's so different about ASEL, from a "Can i manage it..." point of view?  :-) :-D


-------------
The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it


Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 11:19am
Normally the way I look at it is if I am asked to manage the company can I run it with some help and in this case that does not seem possible.
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Basant jee....wow!Thumbs%20Up Doesn't it sound like a bit of this thought....
 
"I'm a better businessman because I am an investor and a better investor because I am a businessman. If you have the mentality of both, it aids you in each field."---Warren Buffet
 
 


-------------
Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 11:26am
The plant will convert 1 kg of waste plastic into 1 litre of crude oil. This can then be refined to produce about 700 ml of petrol.
 
The quest is significant for India, which produces 7,000 tonnes of waste plastic every day. Zadgaonkar calculates that even if 50 per cent of this waste is converted, the country would have approximately 2.5 million litres of petrol every day, and significant volumes of diesel and lubricating oil.
 
Will reclaimed petrol be cheaper than ordinary petrol? According to Zadgaonkar, the process of conversion costs Rs 7.50 per litre. Along with the raw material expenditure, the total cost of petrol production would be about Rs 12. However, she says it is not possible to determine the exact cost at this stage.
 
Central Pollution Control Board estimates municipal solid waste generation in the country to increase from the present 130000 MT per day to a whopping 821000 MT by 2047.The proportion of non-biodegradable plastic waste in the MSW was 7% in 2003 and growing exponentially.
 
This is an idea whose idea has come!


-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: omshivaya
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 11:28am
You mean time has come, hain na Devesh jee? Wink(See above). Please continue with as much information and your views, as possible.


-------------
The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 11:34am

Stock split and 45% dividend is great from the small company point of view.



-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: omshivaya
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 11:37am
You already have taken a position it seems Devesh ji. Good luck from my side mate!!! Hope it rocks for all invested!

-------------
The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 11:41am

No i have not invested in this one as of now but definitely planning to enter...It seems multibagger for me...



-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: omshivaya
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2007 at 11:44am

Keeping the waste-to-energy part aside, what do you think of its lighting business as a whole? What are its growth prospects in CAGR terms, for next 3-4 years? You done a research on that Devesh ji!



-------------
The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it


Posted By: ndzapak
Date Posted: 24/Jul/2007 at 9:07pm

Asian Electronics has invested in two Joint Ventures with Pantaloon Retail

as per details given below:

 

1. The Company has formed a Joint Venture Company, viz., "Asian Retail Lighting Ltd" for lighting solutions for retail industry with Home Solution Retail India Ltd (HSRIL) (part of the Future Group), as joint promoters.

 

Core competence of the promoters in their respective fields & pooling of their resources is expected to provide greater synergy to the Joint Venture towards higher growth in the Retail Sector.

 

2. The Company has formed another Joint Venture Company, viz., "Home Lighting India Ltd" for Home Lighting Solutions with Home Solution Retail Ltd (HSRIL) (part of the Future Group) & Idiom Design & Consulting Ltd (Idiom), as joint promoters.

 

Core competence of the promoters in their respective fields & pooling of their resources is expected to provide greater synergy to the Joint Venture towards higher growth in the Home Lighting Segment through the proposed presence in Retail Malls & High Street Locations.



-------------
the Equitydesk is the best


Posted By: omshivaya
Date Posted: 24/Jul/2007 at 9:11pm
When were these JVs done any ideas?

-------------
The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it


Posted By: ndzapak
Date Posted: 24/Jul/2007 at 9:50pm
The company filed the information to the stock exchanges on 20th April ,2007.

-------------
the Equitydesk is the best


Posted By: ndzapak
Date Posted: 24/Jul/2007 at 11:10pm

Thanks Devesh for your update , it clears some doubts but few still lingers.

 

I think scalability is an issue here. Whether they would be able to achieve the resultsby first  scaling up to 25 MT and then later to 450 MT is important. If they are able to put up a commercial scale plant of 450 MT , it would be stupendous. Key thing would be to watch for this scalability of technology.

 

A Typical diesel power generating plant of 1 MW would require approximately 250 litres of fuel  per hour per megawatt of generation translating in to requirement of5000 litres ( 5 MT ) per day i.e 5 MT capacity conversion plant will sustain 1 power plant of 1 MW capacity.  Hence the figure of  800MW still appears very curious for me as also the revenue figures  of  5 to 6 crores per MW.  This figure is typically the capital cost for constructing a power plant  while what we are  dealing here is fuel cost.



-------------
the Equitydesk is the best


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 24/Jul/2007 at 11:14pm
Yes, I mentioned that as a capital cost - shows how much I know about this business. Thanks for pointing that out.

-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: vivek.650
Date Posted: 26/Jul/2007 at 12:52pm

This new devlopment from plastic to hydrocarbon/energy product was doing round the corner past one year but I never dared to enter even at 250 level , because an analyst -freind of mine told me that wait for if thses development come true and if proven then it may be another Infosys after long time but sure to be and then buy even if you have to buy at 1000+ level,never mind it. The true time have arrived ,I feel so and that is the reason Mr.Manekar already there and keep on adding.Going to be a biggest winner on bourses soon.Thanks.



-------------
vivek


Posted By: vivek.650
Date Posted: 26/Jul/2007 at 2:42pm
Past few months study of the stock and business scaleability worldwide in time to come and acceptibility is beyond my imagination, given the future prospect of green hydrocarbon / cell fuel concept , the stock of asian electronic sure winner.Only thing is which level to grab this share remains a question mark . But , yes we should think of adding at every decline and go for a average buying.I will not be surprised if this stock quotes 7000-9000 in a years time from now.A sure bet.Thanks.

-------------
vivek


Posted By: kaushalchawla
Date Posted: 26/Jul/2007 at 8:32pm
Can somebody, in very simple terms, explain me how this company is going to be benefited as IOC and professor lady holds the patent for the technology? Thank you.

-------------
Warm Regards,
Kaushal


Posted By: omshivaya
Date Posted: 26/Jul/2007 at 9:15pm
Originally posted by vivek.650

I will not be surprised if this stock quotes 7000-9000 in a years time from now.A sure bet.Thanks.
 
There is nothing called a sure bet in stock market. Also, it is not a crime to quote a stock price so high, but it is so when there is no logic given behind it backed by some form of numbers. Don't take it personally sir. Good luck with it.


-------------
The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it


Posted By: India_Bull
Date Posted: 26/Jul/2007 at 9:18pm
Very well said Omjee !!

-------------
India_Bull forever Bull !
www.kapilcomedynights.com


Posted By: ndzapak
Date Posted: 26/Jul/2007 at 10:13pm
For those interested in the technology of converting plastics to fuel
a few interesting links found on the internet.
 

http://www.wasteplastictechnology.blogspot.com/ - http://www.wasteplastictechnology.blogspot.com/

 

 

http://www.plastemart.com/Upload/Ecamp/detox/ecamp1/default.htm - http://www.plastemart.com/Upload/Ecamp/detox/ecamp1/default.htm

 

 

http://www.rexresearch.com/zadgnkar/zadgnkar.htm - http://www.rexresearch.com/zadgnkar/zadgnkar.htm

 

 

http://www.plas2fuel.com/news.shtml - http://www.plas2fuel.com /news.shtml

 

 

http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:lv94R4nlt9MJ:www.envis-icpe.com/Envis-Aug-04.pdf+Plastics+to+Fuel&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=40 - http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:lv94R4nlt9MJ:www.envis-icpe.com/Envis-Aug-04.pdf+Plastics+to+Fuel&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=40

 


-------------
the Equitydesk is the best


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 26/Jul/2007 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by kaushalchawla

Can somebody, in very simple terms, explain me how this company is going to be benefited as IOC and professor lady holds the patent for the technology? Thank you.
 
Alka Zadgaonkar holds 26% in US Instruments,a subsidiary of Asian Electronics. IOC is not going to benefit anything from this venture..


-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 26/Jul/2007 at 10:46pm
Thanks for putting up all that links...
 
Disclosure: I have small exposure to AEL as of now, will increase on every dips so that it constitutes atleast 10% of my portfolio. I have heard good things about the management from various blogs,sites,etc...Their aim is to be within striking distance of Top 2 players in the lighting business (Philips & Wipro)..


-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: manishdave
Date Posted: 26/Jul/2007 at 11:42pm
Vallabh Bhansali was director in this company sometimes back...


Posted By: omshivaya
Date Posted: 26/Jul/2007 at 1:31am
Some days back you didnt have an exposure Devesh ji. You accumulated in between? What's your average rate in AEL now and what kind of target are you setting for yourself, since it is going to take 10% of your portfolio?

-------------
The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it


Posted By: vivek.650
Date Posted: 26/Jul/2007 at 11:02am

The rationale behind Asian Electronics of future growth was not only that it has made foray into PLASTIC TO HYDROCARBON but also it is going to be India's only company entering into FUEL CELL research area(not confirmed but sure the way it has aquired US instruments and others) where US alraedy doing lot of research into this new technology since many years back and that is where I am bullish about this company.If things goes ok (well , it may take some time and money too) for it , then according to my conviction it may be bigger than infosys because then concern about scalibility will disapear and this stock will be sought in biggies's portfolio.If more information please.Thanks.



-------------
vivek


Posted By: vivek.650
Date Posted: 27/Jul/2007 at 3:36pm
The stock of Asian Electronic is in down circuit @1060/= It is an opportunity to start accumulating the shares as per your will and as your buy prices.Thanks.

-------------
vivek


Posted By: vivek.650
Date Posted: 27/Jul/2007 at 4:14pm

As a small & honest investor I would like to disclose few stocks which grown in big-big sizes.

1. Infosys tech     I discovered in 1997 @ 395/= on 10 paid up only

                            planned to buy 100 but could not dare & never bought     &                          regretting alaways.
 
2. Satyam comp    discovered@ 34 & bought at the rate 56/= but sold early and could not benifited of high priced selling. Bad luck.
 
3. Asian Electronic  discovered @ 250/= and started buying in small lot @ 1070/= just few days ago.
Thanks.


-------------
vivek


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 27/Jul/2007 at 10:42am
Some days back you didnt have an exposure Devesh ji. You accumulated in between? What's your average rate in AEL now and what kind of target are you setting for yourself, since it is going to take 10% of your portfolio?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I have entered @ Rs.1080(incl.brokerage). AEL is growing at 100% for the past three years with a PE of just 22 on FY07 earnings and will continue to grow at atleast 50% in the next three years with no management concern, the stock will definitely gets re-rated sooner than later. Growth will take care of any equity dilution in the future.
 
Assuming EPS growth of 50% in the next three years with PE of 35, the target price comes to around Rs.6000!!!
@ 22 PE, it comes to around 3300
 
Praj should be re-rated first, then AEL will follow....


-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: kaizenbudhi
Date Posted: 28/Jul/2007 at 11:37pm
Sorry for the post above. Who is "Shivanand Shankar Mankekar"? I entered in Asian Electronics at 450 and Thanks to Basantji & Devesh et al that we have a forum for this stock which makes me more bullish on this one.


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 28/Jul/2007 at 11:44pm
Originally posted by kaizenbudhi

Sorry for the post above. Who is "Shivanand Shankar Mankekar"? I entered in Asian Electronics at 450 and Thanks to Basantji & Devesh et al that we have a forum for this stock which makes me more bullish on this one.
 
This is his profile:
 
http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1106 - http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1106
 


-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: omshivaya
Date Posted: 28/Jul/2007 at 2:44am
Thanks you Devesh ji for that update.

-------------
The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it


Posted By: vivek.650
Date Posted: 29/Jul/2007 at 9:35am
I believe in action. Talk less , work more & study , as much as you can is less.Thanks.

-------------
vivek


Posted By: Mr. V
Date Posted: 30/Jul/2007 at 9:03pm

Asian Electronics has reported a net profit of Rs 28.44 crore for the first quarter as against Rs 6.25 crore in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. Its net sales stood at Rs 83.85 crore versus Rs 53.72 crore.

http://www.moneycontrol.com/mccode/news/searchresult.php?search_str=Suresh%20Shah&datesel=2 - Suresh Shah , Chairman, Asian Electronics said that the total revenue is Rs 84 crore 50 lakh. Their operating profit margins are at 33%.

 

Excerpts from CNBC-TV18’s exclusive interview with Suresh Shah:

 

Q: We have your sales numbers at about Rs 83-84 crores, which is about 57% higher. Could you lay out the rest of the numbers as well?

 

A: Yes, our total revenue is Rs 84 crore 50 lakh. Our expenditure is Rs 44.75 crore, which gives us a gross profit of Rs 39.75 crore and our net profit is Rs 28.44 crore.

 

Q: What does that translate into in terms of operating profit margins?

 

A: Operating margin is about 33%. 

 

Q: How much of this contribution came from Green Hydrocarbons in this quarter?

 

A: From http://www.moneycontrol.com/mccode/news/searchresult.php?search_str=Green%20Hydrocarbons&datesel=2 - Green Hydrocarbons , we got a total of Rs 32.15 crore profit before tax from segmented results and including the http://www.moneycontrol.com/mccode/news/searchresult.php?search_str=Energy%20Service%20Company&datesel=2 - Energy Service Company , or http://www.moneycontrol.com/mccode/news/searchresult.php?search_str=ESCO&datesel=2 - ESCO , it is Rs 29 crores.

 

Q: You were planning to set up a power plant. Can you take us through what is the timetable and what can come up in FY08 itself?

 

A: We have not yet set up power plants. We are selling these plants to other people. So, right now, these people who are buying our machinery are setting it up.

 

Q: What will you do in terms of sales and profits for the entire year?

 

A: I will not be able to reveal that. I can tell you that we will do better.

Source: IndiaEarnings.com
http://indiaearnings.moneycontrol.com/sub_india/compnews.php?autono=295262 - http://indiaearnings.moneycontrol.com/sub_india/compnews.php?autono=295262


Posted By: India_Bull
Date Posted: 30/Jul/2007 at 9:31pm
Any specific reason for this interview at this point of time.on TV18/Indiaearnings.com , (I dont mind for that but i dont hear that twice in a month  for no specific reason !!) I think I read one during the results .


-------------
India_Bull forever Bull !
www.kapilcomedynights.com


Posted By: India_Bull
Date Posted: 30/Jul/2007 at 9:34pm
Topic: Asian Electronics:Plastic to Energy!
Posted: Today at 9:35am By vivek.650
I believe in action. Talk less , work more & study , as much as you can is less.Thanks.
Vivekjee,
 
I also want to follow your advise,(your post )!! Was it referring to any specific context ?


-------------
India_Bull forever Bull !
www.kapilcomedynights.com


Posted By: Mr. V
Date Posted: 30/Jul/2007 at 10:00pm
Originally posted by Mr. V

Q: You were planning to set up a power plant. Can you take us through what is the timetable and what can come up in FY08 itself?

 

A: We have not yet set up power plants. We are selling these plants to other people. So, right now, these people who are buying our machinery are setting it up.

 
So, are they a Praj kind of company ?


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 30/Jul/2007 at 11:43pm
Spectacular results!!!
 
Company is on track to achieve FY08 EPS of Rs.90...If re-rating happens,this stock will fly like a rocket...3 bagger in one year thats the power of re-rating in this stock...Operating profit is healthy...
 
You can say this company is a kind of Praj but where Praj processes corn, AEL process plastic waste...If i am not wrong, Corn prices are increasing..plz correct me if wrong...AEL is also into Energy saving lighting products...


-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: kishanpv
Date Posted: 30/Jul/2007 at 11:57pm

Yes Corn prices are increasing b'cos of

1) Increased Demand for Ethanol

2) Corn as such being widely available as a "Healthy Food" - almost at all the malls / every commercial street in bangalore

Also, there was a debate if Montasa (hope am rite) demands an exposure as they are in corn production & also Agro tech foods link suggested corn prices going up hence inc. input cost



Posted By: Mr. V
Date Posted: 30/Jul/2007 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by deveshkayal

Spectacular results!!!
You can say this company is a kind of Praj but where Praj processes corn, AEL process plastic waste...If i am not wrong, Corn prices are increasing..plz correct me if wrong...AEL is also into Energy saving lighting products...
 
By similarity I meant that both Praj & Asian Electronics sell the equipment for the plant rather than run the actual plants and sell the fuel/power.


Posted By: nikhil090
Date Posted: 30/Jul/2007 at 12:51pm
I would also try to be devil's advocate and ask few queries.
 
1. What is so special about the technology or the additive? In India actually "patented" does not matter. All informations are actually available on payment of small money somewhere..
2. I have still not able to get the business model. Is AEL going to collect all the plastic waste and convert it into diesel/petrol etc and sell that?
3. Or are they manufacturing the equipment for converting plastic waste and selling the equipments?  If this is the case then what is the edge that AEL has?
4. I understand that the key is the additive/catalyst. What is so special and how is it guarded so that other chemical producer does not get it? This is because to keep on converting plastic to hydrocarbon, additive needs to be continuously added and Indians are excellent at reverse chemistry. They will find out the additive in 10 days..


Posted By: ndzapak
Date Posted: 30/Jul/2007 at 1:07am
Quarter on quarter both the sales and net profits are down
 
Its Q4FY07  net sales were at Rs 150.2 crore while the sales for
Q1FY08 is at Rs.83.85 crores
 
Its Q4FY07  net profit  were at Rs 31.5 crore while the net profit for 
Q1FY08 is at Rs.28.44 crores
 
Interestingly  the company declared its Q4FY07 results on 5th July
and  its Q1FY08 results today on 30th July.
 
 Results of two quaters in a single month !!
 


-------------
the Equitydesk is the best


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 30/Jul/2007 at 1:10am
I am not a science student but what I hv read is that it is a secret chemical.AEL can sell equipment and power both.the patent is registered in US & India.until and unless there is a competitor in this space, I see no problem.

-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 30/Jul/2007 at 1:12am
Originally posted by ndzapak

Quarter on quarter both the sales and net profits are down
 
Its Q4FY07  net sales were at Rs 150.2 crore while the sales for
Q1FY08 is at Rs.83.85 crores
 
Its Q4FY07  net profit  were at Rs 31.5 crore while the net profit for 
Q1FY08 is at Rs.28.44 crores
 
Interestingly  the company declared its Q4FY07 results on 5th July
and  its Q1FY08 results today on 30th July.
 
 Results of two quaters in a single month !!
 
 
That was quite an interesting find but is there any seasonality attached to this business?


-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 30/Jul/2007 at 1:19am
Yes Q4 is the strongest while Q1 is the weakest.don't know why.to me FY numbers matter.

-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: ndzapak
Date Posted: 30/Jul/2007 at 1:21am

Q: How much of this contribution came from Green Hydrocarbons in this quarter?

 

A: From http://www.moneycontrol.com/mccode/news/searchresult.php?search_str=Green%20Hydrocarbons&datesel=2 -

 

Is the acquisition of Green Hydrocarbons from retrospective effect ?
Otherwise the acquistion was announced on 5th July so how can they
say that "we got a total of Rs 32.15 crore profit before tax from
segmented results" ( for the quarter April07 to June07)
 
Even the deal size is not fixed yet and they have started consolidating the
results !!!


-------------
the Equitydesk is the best


Posted By: vivekkumar_in
Date Posted: 30/Jul/2007 at 2:34am
ndzapak - what you bring to notice is something that needs to be checked.. typically companies cannot do this kind of accounting..

As for Asian electronics here is my view...

Need to get more details on the growth expected of the existing businesses alone (lighting etc).. so that the downside is to some extent limited..

Waste to energy is a high flying project that will have potential.. But I think we should consider that as a bonus and not primary consideration for investment...

In a country like India there is no incentive for businesses to convert waste to energy..

That too putting in perspective..together with prospect of the huge gas in KG basin and that coming operational from 2nd half 2008...energy from waste may not enjoy a premium..

As with various forms of unconventional Energy production, there is no silver bullet.. Solar, Cow Dung, Tidal, Geothermal, Chemical etc...energy from waste is one such unconventional energy...

Even though most of India has enormous sun exposure - Solar energy is not popular, even though India has one of the highest cows - still many of our villages are in dark except for a few success stories and so on...

The point I am trying to drive is there are multiple ways of securing energy - technology may exists for each one of them..

In India there is no dearth of waste... who would be the customers ? - those who have capacity to create/collect such quantities of waste.. - Corporations, Municipalities etc ?

Logical Feasibility, Return on Investment, relative cost of energy etc.. will what drive the market not technology..... 

-------------
Often we forget there's a company behind every stock,and there's only one reason why stocks go up. Companies go from doing poorly to doing well or small companies grow to large companies.
P Lynch


Posted By: Mr. V
Date Posted: 30/Jul/2007 at 2:42am
Originally posted by ndzapak

Q: How much of this contribution came from Green Hydrocarbons in this quarter?

 

A: From http://www.moneycontrol.com/mccode/news/searchresult.php?search_str=Green%20Hydrocarbons&datesel=2 -

 

Is the acquisition of Green Hydrocarbons from retrospective effect ?
Otherwise the acquistion was announced on 5th July so how can they
say that "we got a total of Rs 32.15 crore profit before tax from
segmented results" ( for the quarter April07 to June07)
 
Even the deal size is not fixed yet and they have started consolidating the
results !!!
 
I think there is some problem with the way the interview has been reported.
 
According to the results filed on the NSE site, 32.15 cr is the overall PBT and 29 cr (28.44 cr) is the PAT.
 
The segmental results reported revenues of 33.3 cr from the Lighting business and 47.52 cr from "Plant & Machinery". I believe the "Plant & Machinery" division accounts for the Waste to Power equipment.
 
My understanding is that the company owns the IP for the process and hence will sell the plant/process equipment to power generating companies. Asian Electronics intends to sell equipment to generate 800 MW of power and taking a capital cost of 5-6 cr per MW, it will do revenues of 4000 cr over the next 3 years by selling the equipment.
 
As for protection of the IP, even if somehow reverse engineers the secret additive, it doesn't necessarily mean that they can setup a plant and start generating electricity because the process as such is patented. Since, we are talking of revenues running into hundreds of crores, I don't think the technology can be stolen.
 
For eg. its very easy to reverse engineer the "Cash Register" but that doesn't mean that anyone can start manufacturing and selling Cash Registers.
 
 


Posted By: ndzapak
Date Posted: 30/Jul/2007 at 6:46am
Originally posted by Mr. V

Originally posted by ndzapak

Q: How much of this contribution came from Green Hydrocarbons in this quarter?

 

A: From http://www.moneycontrol.com/mccode/news/searchresult.php?search_str=Green%20Hydrocarbons&datesel=2 -

 

Is the acquisition of Green Hydrocarbons from retrospective effect ?
Otherwise the acquistion was announced on 5th July so how can they
say that "we got a total of Rs 32.15 crore profit before tax from
segmented results" ( for the quarter April07 to June07)
 
Even the deal size is not fixed yet and they have started consolidating the
results !!!
 
I think there is some problem with the way the interview has been reported.
 
According to the results filed on the NSE site, 32.15 cr is the overall PBT and 29 cr (28.44 cr) is the PAT.
 
The segmental results reported revenues of 33.3 cr from the Lighting business and 47.52 cr from "Plant & Machinery". I believe the "Plant & Machinery" division accounts for the Waste to Power equipment.
 
My understanding is that the company owns the IP for the process and hence will sell the plant/process equipment to power generating companies. Asian Electronics intends to sell equipment to generate 800 MW of power and taking a capital cost of 5-6 cr per MW, it will do revenues of 4000 cr over the next 3 years by selling the equipment.
 
As for protection of the IP, even if somehow reverse engineers the secret additive, it doesn't necessarily mean that they can setup a plant and start generating electricity because the process as such is patented. Since, we are talking of revenues running into hundreds of crores, I don't think the technology can be stolen.
 
For eg. its very easy to reverse engineer the "Cash Register" but that doesn't mean that anyone can start manufacturing and selling Cash Registers.
 
 
 
 

Thanks Mr.V, I definitely think there is some problem with the way the interview has been reported.

 

Even I was puzzled, and was looking for answers on the Asian Electronics website, when I saw your post, I referred to the NSE website. The results filed on the NSE site, 32.15 cr is the overall PBT and 28.44 cr. is the PAT.

 

The segmental results reported revenues of 33.3 cr from the Lighting business and 47.52 cr from "Plant & Machinery".

 

May be as you said  "Plant & Machinery" division accounts for the Waste to Power equipment.

 

However the company Green Hydrocarbons  was acquired only in July07, so whether they were manufacturing the Waste to Power equipment even before July07 ?



-------------
the Equitydesk is the best


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 30/Jul/2007 at 8:09am
However the company Green Hydrocarbons  was acquired only in July07, so whether they were manufacturing the Waste to Power equipment even before July07
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Refer to the 27th Dec,2006 Announcement on BSE Site.This revenue is coming from Alka Zadgaonkar's company.
 
Also, Company's Auditors are S.R.Batliboi (KPMG). Now I have no doubts regarding the accounting system followed.


-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 30/Jul/2007 at 10:04am
Batliboi is now termed as Earnst and Young I guess.

-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: vivekkumar_in
Date Posted: 30/Jul/2007 at 10:13am
Originally posted by deveshkayal

However the company Green Hydrocarbons  was acquired only in July07, so whether they were manufacturing the Waste to Power equipment even before July07
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Refer to the 27th Dec,2006 Announcement on BSE Site.This revenue is coming from Alka Zadgaonkar's company.
 
Also, Company's Auditors are S.R.Batliboi (KPMG). Now I have no doubts regarding the accounting system followed.


What is with Batliboi auditors Devesh ji ? Are they good?


-------------
Often we forget there's a company behind every stock,and there's only one reason why stocks go up. Companies go from doing poorly to doing well or small companies grow to large companies.
P Lynch


Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 31/Jul/2007 at 2:04pm
....even though India has one of the highest cows - still many of our villages are in dark except for a few success stories and so on...
 
------------------------------------------------
 
And the irony is that India has too few Bulls, but still we have so much of bullsh*t on business channels!!
 
 


-------------
Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards


Posted By: tyler_durden
Date Posted: 31/Jul/2007 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by basant

Batliboi is now termed as Earnst and Young I guess.
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
basant ji which business batliboi (not kpmg wala)...is into?? i have read few reports about em as in they re going top be big!!!!! i have heard they re into engineering, ac and refrigration..logistics etc... 


-------------
If you aren't fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm.


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 31/Jul/2007 at 3:32pm
Nothing of that they are an audit firm.

-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: tyler_durden
Date Posted: 31/Jul/2007 at 3:45pm
http://www.batliboi.com/ - http://www.batliboi.com/
this was the firm i was talking about..i think there re 2 batliboi s Big%20smile

-------------
If you aren't fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm.


Posted By: tyler_durden
Date Posted: 31/Jul/2007 at 4:04pm
why asian elec has hit the lower circuit today??


-------------
If you aren't fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm.


Posted By: mukesh
Date Posted: 31/Jul/2007 at 5:46pm

  So that aage kabhi confusion na ho...

A F Ferguson & Co
Deloitte
S B Billimoria & Co Deloitte
S.R Batlibaoi &Co E&Y
BSR&Co KPMG
Lovelock & Lewes PwC


-------------
Life gives answers in three ways-It says YES and gives waht u want. It says NO and gives u something better. It says WAIt and gives you the best


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 31/Jul/2007 at 6:49pm
Mukeshji, Thanks for all that info.
 
 


-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 31/Jul/2007 at 10:40pm
So that aage kabhi confusion na ho...
---------------------------------------
I was confused..thanks for that clarification...
 
Dont know why AEL hit lower circuit today...maybe marketmen expected more from results...


-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 03/Aug/2007 at 12:07pm
KPMG report, says "Carbon credit potential of 5000 credits per year for every MW of generation capacity at $10/credit has been assumed)
 
Going by the above report, AEL should earn Rs.160 crs if it generates 800 MW of energy. Even if we assume 50:50 sharing with its JV partner, AEL would earn Rs.80 crs, which goes directly into the bottomline!!


-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: tyler_durden
Date Posted: 03/Aug/2007 at 1:49pm
that wud be just awesome...eps will shoot up to around 80 rs on annualised basis....

-------------
If you aren't fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm.


Posted By: Mr. V
Date Posted: 03/Aug/2007 at 7:28pm
Originally posted by deveshkayal

KPMG report, says "Carbon credit potential of 5000 credits per year for every MW of generation capacity at $10/credit has been assumed)
 
Going by the above report, AEL should earn Rs.160 crs if it generates 800 MW of energy. Even if we assume 50:50 sharing with its JV partner, AEL would earn Rs.80 crs, which goes directly into the bottomline!!
 
Is AEL going to generate the electricity or supply the equipment to other power plants who will in turn generate the power ?


Posted By: tyler_durden
Date Posted: 08/Aug/2007 at 12:42pm
devesh ji has abn exited this stock recently?? till june abn was holding 650k shares under various schemes...now i can see 50k shares only...

-------------
If you aren't fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm.


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 08/Aug/2007 at 1:17pm
General comment: Never trust these MF's they have a one day approach on stocks - till the time the next NAV is announced. I have seen them jig a lot of stocks this way.

-------------
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: tyler_durden
Date Posted: 08/Aug/2007 at 1:34pm
i just asked because asian electronics was top holding for abn's 2 schemes ... MF buying or selling wont change fundamentals but it will surely shake up a few weak hands and price might go further down thus giving further buying opportunity to value investors

-------------
If you aren't fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm.


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 08/Aug/2007 at 11:05pm
As per BSE Announcements, ABN Amro bought 5000 shares on 26th July, with this they hold 5.02% in AEL.

-------------
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: tyler_durden
Date Posted: 08/Aug/2007 at 11:50am
i checked on MC ...cud not see their holdings for month of july...for month of june it was showing abn holding big chunk of shares....thats why i asked...might be some prob in site at that time...thanks for the info devesh ji...

-------------
If you aren't fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm.



Print Page | Close Window