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Citi Mkt cap down to $25 Bn (India Implications)

Printed From: The Equity Desk
Category: Market Strategies
Forum Name: Fundamental
Forum Discription: Discuss the operations and finances of any of your companies.Make the other participants aware on the investment opportunities available in a stock on PE free cash flow etc
URL: http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1963
Printed Date: 04/May/2025 at 11:32pm


Topic: Citi Mkt cap down to $25 Bn (India Implications)
Posted By: praveen
Subject: Citi Mkt cap down to $25 Bn (India Implications)
Date Posted: 20/Nov/2008 at 10:13am
Citi Mkt cap down to $25 Bn!! US govt had put $ 25 Bn just a few days ago. CDS spreads on CITI is over the roof. They have started firing in India which is one of the most profitable international market for them inspite of growing roughly 50% y-o-y. It has never happened in CITI India's history. The serious implication of this may be there may be another round of selling (from there own account as well as from redemptions from panic driven investors in citi managed funds)
If we can compile the list of stocks, their stakes and average volume in that counter over the last few weeks we can evaluate the possible extent of damage to those counters.
I fear illiquid stocks would be hammered more
 
 


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The quest for knowledge is a never ending Journey



Replies:
Posted By: kanagala
Date Posted: 20/Nov/2008 at 10:22am
I am kinda sceptical about citi future. Market always spots ahead of normal people. Citi share price is steadily moving to Zero. I hope, US does something to stop this massacre. 

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While one person hesitates because he feels inferior, the other is busy making mistakes and becoming superior.


Posted By: praveen
Date Posted: 20/Nov/2008 at 10:37am
COMPANY NO OF SHARES % OF THE CLOSE PRICE WORTH
TOTAL SHARES Rs. Rs. (Lakhs)
TANLA 8,745,271 8.75 65.95 5,768
RAINCOM 6,021,612 8.36 99.6 5,998
KINETICMOT 1,500,000 7.12 8.05 121
KNL 22,750,000 6.87 7.95 1,809
TATACOFFEE 1,097,850 5.88 166.4 1,827
EDUCOMP 947,781 5.48 1,746.45 16,553
JUBILANT 6,666,820 4.52 155.45 10,364
EMKAY 972,450 4.01 30.05 292
SRTRANSFIN 7,811,986 3.84 195.95 15,308
HTMEDIA 8,630,000 3.68 61.7 5,325
GENUSPOWER 507,944 3.43 78.5 399
EIDPARRY 2,974,308 3.33 144.5 4,298
HDFC 7,477,620 2.63 1,287.10 96,244
USHAMART 6,181,466 2.47 21.9 1,354
AHMEDFORGE 858,548 2.46 21.75 187
AUROPHARMA 1,222,007 2.27 117.75 1,439
PSL 916,336 2.15 87.7 804
ENIL 976,108 2.05 109.7 1,071
KAMATHOTEL 248,674 1.88 43.2 107
PHOENIXLTD 2,712,382 1.87 57.85 1,569
RAJESHEXPO 4,265,582 1.7 21.9 934
CMC 253,701 1.67 301.25 764
LUPIN 1,377,604 1.67 535.2 7,373
SUZLON 25,000,000 1.67 45.85 11,463
RAYMOND 992,661 1.62 79.85 793
IBSEC 3,985,005 1.57 18.9 753
IBN18 2,000,000 1.44 101.15 2,023
IFCI 10,559,143 1.38 16.85 1,779
BAJAJHIND 1,845,749 1.31 42.9 792
IOB 6,921,881 1.27 63.25 4,378
SATYAMCOMP 8,203,186 1.22 233.85 19,183
APTECHT 557,539 1.2 72.45 404
DHANUS 212,090 1.18 31.4 67
SUBEX 405,682 1.16 32.7 133
ANANTRAJ 3,354,000 1.14 43.75 1,467
LUPIN 933,084 1.13 535.2 4,994
ALLCARGO 251,585 1.12 519.6 1,307
LAKSHMIEFL 702,515 1.11 145.85 1,025
IGL 1,475,955 1.05 106.1 1,566
this is just a small list which i compiled. The ownership is as of Sep-08 and prices are as of yesterday

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The quest for knowledge is a never ending Journey


Posted By: praveen
Date Posted: 20/Nov/2008 at 10:40am
HDFC 25,893,941 9.11 1287.1 333,281
 
through a other entity


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The quest for knowledge is a never ending Journey


Posted By: stockaddict
Date Posted: 21/Nov/2008 at 1:05pm

All hell would break lose for these stocks if Citi presses sales button. waiting to lap up quite a few thoughWink



Posted By: xbox
Date Posted: 21/Nov/2008 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by praveen

HDFC 25,893,941 9.11 1287.1 333,281
 
through a other entity
I have no doubt on their sale. They will sell it sooner or later. Obviously not in secondary markets.

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Don't bet on pig after all bull & bear in circle.


Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 21/Nov/2008 at 7:03pm
http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AmEmen1q5prsHxaI4z_dMAS7YWsA/SIG=124g9plo7/**http%3A//biz.yahoo.com/ap/081121/citigroup_ahead_of_the_bell.html - Citi up for sale ? Or will http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=ApoiQQYEkueFd7K2.eu82uy7YWsA/SIG=11j0bh8k8/**http%3A//biz.yahoo.com/cnbc/081121/27839802.html - Pandit 's head be on the chopper?
As Citigroup officials continue to weigh their options, Chief Executive Vikrum Pandit said he would like to keep the company together and does not wish to spin off its Smith Barney brokerage unit. With Citigroup shares plunging below $5 a share on Thursday for the first time in 13 years, pressure is mounting, and could ultimately result in Pandit stepping down because of the lack of confidence in his ability to lead the firm through these troubled times. Shares sank further Friday.


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Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 21/Nov/2008 at 9:20pm
Praveen, mind sharing how you compiled this list of Citi's holdings?

I hold IGL from that list if IGL = Indraprastha Gas.

One comment:

This list, like that of Bear Stearns, doesn't seem to feature front-line stocks with the exception of HDFC and maybe a couple more.


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Posted By: Ajith
Date Posted: 21/Nov/2008 at 10:24pm
 Praveen,
                  Just could not figure out expansion of KNL.Can you oblige ,please?


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Ajith


Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 22/Nov/2008 at 7:42pm
From Economic Times (21/11/2008)

Symbol Change on NSE
Company                  Old Symbol                New Symbol
Karuturi Global          KNL                       KGL



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Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 22/Nov/2008 at 7:52pm
Oooops....22,750,000 shares of KNL!

Maybe it was a strategic purchase as it would need lots of flowers for wreaths at Citi's funeral.



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Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards


Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 22/Nov/2008 at 8:03pm
Originally posted by kulman

Oooops....22,750,000 shares of KNL!

Maybe it was a strategic purchase as it would need lots of flowers for wreaths at Citi's funeral.



Welcome back, Sir!


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Posted By: lukskywaker
Date Posted: 23/Nov/2008 at 1:01pm
CAN ANYBODY PLEASE MAIL ME THE CRUDE OIL REPORT OF GOLDMAN SCAHS ON SUPERSPIKE WHICH THEY PUBLISHED IN 2004, GIVING A TGT OF $100. I DONT WANT THE NEW ONE....
MY email is: mailto:[email protected] - [email protected]
THANKS


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 23/Nov/2008 at 10:10pm
Investors haven't learnt the difference between prop. investments and P-Notes investments. HDFC and Polaris are prop. investments whereas all others are PN investments which would be transferred to another PN holder (probably Deutche) just like Bear Stearns, Lehman, ML and MS did in the past few months. 

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"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 23/Nov/2008 at 10:30pm
Originally posted by deveshkayal

Investors haven't learnt the difference between prop. investments and P-Notes investments. HDFC and Polaris are prop. investments whereas all others are PN investments which would be transferred to another PN holder (probably Deutche) just like Bear Stearns, Lehman, ML and MS did in the past few months. 


I think Karuturi is a real investment by Citi on the basis of shareholding pattern as of 30/09/2008.


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Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 24/Nov/2008 at 1:13pm
This from Yahoo!.....


Government unveils bold plan to rescue Citigroup


By JEANNINE AVERSA, AP Economics Writer Jeannine Aversa, Ap Economics Writer – 18 mins ago


WASHINGTON – The government unveiled a bold plan Sunday to rescue Citigroup, injecting a fresh $20 billion into the troubled firm as well as guaranteeing hundreds of billions of dollars in risky assets.

The action, announced jointly by the Treasury Department, the Federal Reserve and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., is aimed at shoring up a huge financial institution whose collapse would wreak havoc on the already crippled financial system and the U.S. economy.

The sweeping plan is geared to stemming a crisis of confidence in the company, whose stock has been hammered in the past week on worries about its financial health.

"With these transactions, the U.S. government is taking the actions necessary to strengthen the financial system and protect U.S. taxpayers and the U.S. economy," the three agencies said in a statement issued late Sunday night. "We will continue to use all of our resources to preserve the strength of our banking institutions, and promote the process of repair and recovery and to manage risks."

The move is the latest in a string of high-profile government bailout efforts. The Fed in March provided financial backing to JPMorgan Chase's buyout of ailing Bear Stearns. Six months later, the government was forced to take over mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and throw a financial lifeline — which was recently rejiggered — to insurer American International Group.

Critics worry the actions could put billions of taxpayers' dollars in jeopardy and encourage financial companies to take excessive risk on the belief that the government will bail them out of their messes.

The Citigroup rescue came after a weekend of marathon discussions led by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke. Timothy Geithner, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, who is being tapped by President-elect Barack Obama as his Treasury chief also participated.

Investors reacted cautiously to the plan. Most Asian stock markets retreated when they opened Monday, weighed down by worries about Citigroup. However, losses were pared after the government announcement.

The $20 billion cash injection by the Treasury Department will come from the $700 billion financial bailout package. The capital infusion follows an earlier one — of $25 billion — in Citigroup in which the government also received an ownership stake.

As part of the plan, Treasury and the FDIC will guarantee against the "possibility of unusually large losses" on up to $306 billion of risky loans and securities backed by commercial and residential mortgages.

Under the loss-sharing arrangement, Citigroup Inc. will assume the first $29 billion in losses on the risky pool of assets. Beyond that amount, the government would absorb 90 percent of the remaining losses, and Citigroup 10 percent. Money from the $700 billion bailout and funds from the FDIC would cover the government's portion of potential losses. The Federal Reserve would finance the remaining assets with a loan to Citigroup.

In exchange for the guarantees, the government will get $7 billion in preferred shares of Citigroup.

As a condition of the rescue, Citigroup is barred from paying quarterly dividends to shareholders of more than 1 cent a share for three years unless the company obtains consent from the three federal agencies. The bank is currently paying a dividend of 16 cents, halved from a 32-cent payout in the previous quarter. The agreement also places restrictions on executive compensation, including bonuses.

Importantly, the agreement calls on Citigroup to take steps to help distressed homeowners.

Specifically, Citigroup will modify mortgages to help people avoid foreclosure along the lines of an FDIC plan that was put into effect at IndyMac Bank, a major failed savings and loan based in Pasadena, Calif.

Under the IndyMac plan, struggling home borrowers pay interest rates of about three percent for five years. Rates are reduced so that borrowers aren't paying more than 38 percent of their pretax income on housing.

The IndyMac plan also was used as a model for a new program by mortgage finance companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and for two other failed thrifts taken over by the government on Friday. FDIC Chairman Sheila Bair has been pressing Treasury to use $24 billion from the $700 billion bailout program to put the mortgage modification program on national footing, but Paulson is opposed to that idea.

The once mighty Citigroup, which had at one time been the largest U.S. bank by assets, has seen its shares lose 60 percent of their value in the past week, reflecting a crisis of confidence among skittish investors. They are worried all the risky debt on Citigroup's balance sheet will turn into losses as the economy worsens and the markets stay turbulent — losses that could be nearly impossible to reverse.

Citigroup is such a large, interconnected player in the financial system that it is seen by Washington policymakers as too big to fail. The company has operations stretching around the globe in more than 100 countries.

Analysts consider Citigroup the most vulnerable among the major U.S. banks — especially after it failed to nab Wachovia Corp., which was bought instead by Wells Fargo & Co. That was a missed opportunity for Citi to gets its hands on much-needed U.S. deposits that would bolster its cash position.

Citigroup was especially hard hit by the meltdown in risky, subprime mortgages made to people with tarnished credit or low incomes. Foreclosures on those mortgages spiked, leaving Citi and other financial companies wracking up huge losses on the soured investments. The company has failed to turn a profit during the past four quarters and has announced plans to slash thousands of jobs.

____

Associated Press Writer Marcy Gordon contributed to this report.




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Posted By: praveen
Date Posted: 24/Nov/2008 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by deveshkayal

Investors haven't learnt the difference between prop. investments and P-Notes investments. HDFC and Polaris are prop. investments whereas all others are PN investments which would be transferred to another PN holder (probably Deutche) just like Bear Stearns, Lehman, ML and MS did in the past few months. 
 
I do understand the difference between the two but I also understand the investor sentiment out there. The fact that an investor A who has an account with Citi on behalf of which Citi has invested may choose to route its investment through some other party but he may also redeem his investment and taking his money elsewhere, thus forcing Citi to sell the stake.


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The quest for knowledge is a never ending Journey


Posted By: Mahesh_N
Date Posted: 24/Nov/2008 at 9:42pm
Citi gets $20 bn bailout.
Stock up 60 % today.
 
Can anyone please throw some light on the Gulf support to Citi...


Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 26/Nov/2008 at 10:41am
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1209537 - Citigroup 'went wrong' on realty: Vikram Pandit

Shri Pandit jee

With due respect, the Citi went wrong not only with Realty but with the Reality. Those highly educated MBAs acted on what Buffett calls 'the institutional imperative'.



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Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards


Posted By: Mohan
Date Posted: 27/Nov/2008 at 9:19pm
I did see the interview and have to say, With no respect to Pandit, ( complete contempt actually ) He is an shameless obnoxious jerk who did not acknowledge the reality of the situation that Citi is in and that he is part of the problem.  Kept talking ( boasting actually ) about the size and scale of operations of Citi. Completely blind to its profits or lack of it actually. ( In Typical suit boot wala behavior )

It has the worst return ratios of any large bank. Just scaling up in size does not scale up profits. ICICI should learn from this mess and relook its strategy.


As far as the Highly educated MBA's tag. I would call them dumb Programmed fools.


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Be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy when others are fearful.


Posted By: PrashantS
Date Posted: 27/Nov/2008 at 5:17am
Mr mohan we have no right to say someone is shameless...btw it is not easy to fit into such position.No bank will come and accept its real numbers including our own banks.In markets nothing is all safe...so i hope u dont condemn anyone just like that 


Posted By: xbox
Date Posted: 27/Nov/2008 at 9:45am
Originally posted by PrashantS

Mr mohan we have no right to say someone is shameless...btw it is not easy to fit into such position.No bank will come and accept its real numbers including our own banks.In markets nothing is all safe...so i hope u dont condemn anyone just like that 
Clap Blaming on Pandit is like firing gun too soon without judging the ground reality...after all he was not the one responsible for current Citi condition.

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Don't bet on pig after all bull & bear in circle.


Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 27/Nov/2008 at 9:52am
Originally posted by xbox

Originally posted by PrashantS

Mr mohan we have no right to say someone is shameless...btw it is not easy to fit into such position.No bank will come and accept its real numbers including our own banks.In markets nothing is all safe...so i hope u dont condemn anyone just like that 
Clap Blaming on Pandit is like firing gun too soon without judging the ground reality...after all he was not the one responsible for current Citi condition.


But he should talk sense and admit the truth. Citibank is the closest thing to Enron in years. He should know that by now.


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Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 29/Jan/2009 at 4:24pm

Citi grounded
Business Standard / New Delhi January 29, 2009, 0:59 IST

After US politicians raised a stink over Citigroup’s plans to spend $50 million to buy an executive jet, the bank has cancelled its plans. Reuters quotes a person familiar with the deal to say the jet in question was a Dassault Falcon 7X. The bank has been quoted as saying that it will have to pay millions in terms of penalties for cancelling a deal it had entered into way back in 2005 — presumably this is less costly than the possibility of turning Congress against it, especially since the bank could just need to go there again for another bailout. Corporate jets are a big thing with Congress — when the chiefs of Big Auto firms came to Washington to plead for a bailout, the fact that they flew in on separate corporate jets had become a big issue as well.





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Posted By: Mohan
Date Posted: 05/Mar/2009 at 11:23pm
Originally posted by kulman

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1209537 - Citigroup 'went wrong' on realty: Vikram Pandit

Shri Pandit jee

With due respect, the Citi went wrong not only with Realty but with the Reality. Those highly educated MBAs acted on what Buffett calls 'the institutional imperative'.





CITI went wrong. period. closer to 0 today. Will get delisted soon.
Under Pandit's tenure. Took the mother of all recessions to expose flaw in Citi's business plan.


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Be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy when others are fearful.



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