Citi Mkt cap down to $25 Bn (India Implications)
Printed From: The Equity Desk
Category: Market Strategies
Forum Name: Fundamental
Forum Discription: Discuss the operations and finances of any of your companies.Make the other participants aware on the investment opportunities available in a stock on PE free cash flow etc
URL: http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1963
Printed Date: 04/May/2025 at 11:32pm
Topic: Citi Mkt cap down to $25 Bn (India Implications)
Posted By: praveen
Subject: Citi Mkt cap down to $25 Bn (India Implications)
Date Posted: 20/Nov/2008 at 10:13am
Citi Mkt cap down to $25 Bn!! US govt had put $ 25 Bn just a few days ago. CDS spreads on CITI is over the roof. They have started firing in India which is one of the most profitable international market for them inspite of growing roughly 50% y-o-y. It has never happened in CITI India's history. The serious implication of this may be there may be another round of selling (from there own account as well as from redemptions from panic driven investors in citi managed funds)
If we can compile the list of stocks, their stakes and average volume in that counter over the last few weeks we can evaluate the possible extent of damage to those counters.
I fear illiquid stocks would be hammered more
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Replies:
Posted By: kanagala
Date Posted: 20/Nov/2008 at 10:22am
I am kinda sceptical about citi future. Market always spots ahead of normal people. Citi share price is steadily moving to Zero. I hope, US does something to stop this massacre.
------------- While one person hesitates because he feels inferior, the other is busy making mistakes and becoming superior.
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Posted By: praveen
Date Posted: 20/Nov/2008 at 10:37am
COMPANY |
NO OF SHARES |
% OF THE |
CLOSE PRICE |
WORTH |
|
|
TOTAL SHARES |
Rs. |
Rs. (Lakhs) |
TANLA |
8,745,271 |
8.75 |
65.95 |
5,768 |
RAINCOM |
6,021,612 |
8.36 |
99.6 |
5,998 |
KINETICMOT |
1,500,000 |
7.12 |
8.05 |
121 |
KNL |
22,750,000 |
6.87 |
7.95 |
1,809 |
TATACOFFEE |
1,097,850 |
5.88 |
166.4 |
1,827 |
EDUCOMP |
947,781 |
5.48 |
1,746.45 |
16,553 |
JUBILANT |
6,666,820 |
4.52 |
155.45 |
10,364 |
EMKAY |
972,450 |
4.01 |
30.05 |
292 |
SRTRANSFIN |
7,811,986 |
3.84 |
195.95 |
15,308 |
HTMEDIA |
8,630,000 |
3.68 |
61.7 |
5,325 |
GENUSPOWER |
507,944 |
3.43 |
78.5 |
399 |
EIDPARRY |
2,974,308 |
3.33 |
144.5 |
4,298 |
HDFC |
7,477,620 |
2.63 |
1,287.10 |
96,244 |
USHAMART |
6,181,466 |
2.47 |
21.9 |
1,354 |
AHMEDFORGE |
858,548 |
2.46 |
21.75 |
187 |
AUROPHARMA |
1,222,007 |
2.27 |
117.75 |
1,439 |
PSL |
916,336 |
2.15 |
87.7 |
804 |
ENIL |
976,108 |
2.05 |
109.7 |
1,071 |
KAMATHOTEL |
248,674 |
1.88 |
43.2 |
107 |
PHOENIXLTD |
2,712,382 |
1.87 |
57.85 |
1,569 |
RAJESHEXPO |
4,265,582 |
1.7 |
21.9 |
934 |
CMC |
253,701 |
1.67 |
301.25 |
764 |
LUPIN |
1,377,604 |
1.67 |
535.2 |
7,373 |
SUZLON |
25,000,000 |
1.67 |
45.85 |
11,463 |
RAYMOND |
992,661 |
1.62 |
79.85 |
793 |
IBSEC |
3,985,005 |
1.57 |
18.9 |
753 |
IBN18 |
2,000,000 |
1.44 |
101.15 |
2,023 |
IFCI |
10,559,143 |
1.38 |
16.85 |
1,779 |
BAJAJHIND |
1,845,749 |
1.31 |
42.9 |
792 |
IOB |
6,921,881 |
1.27 |
63.25 |
4,378 |
SATYAMCOMP |
8,203,186 |
1.22 |
233.85 |
19,183 |
APTECHT |
557,539 |
1.2 |
72.45 |
404 |
DHANUS |
212,090 |
1.18 |
31.4 |
67 |
SUBEX |
405,682 |
1.16 |
32.7 |
133 |
ANANTRAJ |
3,354,000 |
1.14 |
43.75 |
1,467 |
LUPIN |
933,084 |
1.13 |
535.2 |
4,994 |
ALLCARGO |
251,585 |
1.12 |
519.6 |
1,307 |
LAKSHMIEFL |
702,515 |
1.11 |
145.85 |
1,025 |
IGL |
1,475,955 |
1.05 |
106.1 |
1,566 |
this is just a small list which i compiled. The ownership is as of Sep-08 and prices are as of yesterday
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Posted By: praveen
Date Posted: 20/Nov/2008 at 10:40am
HDFC |
25,893,941 |
9.11 |
1287.1 |
333,281 |
through a other entity
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Posted By: stockaddict
Date Posted: 21/Nov/2008 at 1:05pm
All hell would break lose for these stocks if Citi presses sales button. waiting to lap up quite a few though
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Posted By: xbox
Date Posted: 21/Nov/2008 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by praveen
HDFC |
25,893,941 |
9.11 |
1287.1 |
333,281 |
through a other entity |
I have no doubt on their sale. They will sell it sooner or later. Obviously not in secondary markets.
------------- Don't bet on pig after all bull & bear in circle.
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Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 21/Nov/2008 at 7:03pm
http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AmEmen1q5prsHxaI4z_dMAS7YWsA/SIG=124g9plo7/**http%3A//biz.yahoo.com/ap/081121/citigroup_ahead_of_the_bell.html - Citi up for sale ? Or will http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=ApoiQQYEkueFd7K2.eu82uy7YWsA/SIG=11j0bh8k8/**http%3A//biz.yahoo.com/cnbc/081121/27839802.html - Pandit 's head be on the chopper?
As Citigroup officials continue to weigh their options, Chief Executive
Vikrum Pandit said he would like to keep the company together and does
not wish to spin off its Smith Barney brokerage unit. With Citigroup
shares plunging below $5 a share on Thursday for the first time in 13
years, pressure is mounting, and could ultimately result in Pandit
stepping down because of the lack of confidence in his ability to lead
the firm through these troubled times. Shares sank further Friday. |
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Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 21/Nov/2008 at 9:20pm
Praveen, mind sharing how you compiled this list of Citi's holdings?
I hold IGL from that list if IGL = Indraprastha Gas.
One comment:
This list, like that of Bear Stearns, doesn't seem to feature front-line stocks with the exception of HDFC and maybe a couple more.
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Posted By: Ajith
Date Posted: 21/Nov/2008 at 10:24pm
Praveen, Just could not figure out expansion of KNL.Can you oblige ,please?
------------- Ajith
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Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 22/Nov/2008 at 7:42pm
From Economic Times (21/11/2008)
Symbol Change on NSE Company Old Symbol New Symbol Karuturi Global KNL KGL
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Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 22/Nov/2008 at 7:52pm
Oooops....22,750,000 shares of KNL!
Maybe it was a strategic purchase as it would need lots of flowers for wreaths at Citi's funeral.
------------- Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards
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Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 22/Nov/2008 at 8:03pm
Originally posted by kulman
Oooops....22,750,000 shares of KNL!
Maybe it was a strategic purchase as it would need lots of flowers for wreaths at Citi's funeral.
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Welcome back, Sir!
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Posted By: lukskywaker
Date Posted: 23/Nov/2008 at 1:01pm
CAN ANYBODY PLEASE MAIL ME THE CRUDE OIL REPORT OF GOLDMAN SCAHS ON SUPERSPIKE WHICH THEY PUBLISHED IN 2004, GIVING A TGT OF $100. I DONT WANT THE NEW ONE....
THANKS
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Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 23/Nov/2008 at 10:10pm
Investors haven't learnt the difference between prop. investments and P-Notes investments. HDFC and Polaris are prop. investments whereas all others are PN investments which would be transferred to another PN holder (probably Deutche) just like Bear Stearns, Lehman, ML and MS did in the past few months.
------------- "You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett
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Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 23/Nov/2008 at 10:30pm
Originally posted by deveshkayal
Investors haven't learnt the difference between prop. investments and P-Notes investments. HDFC and Polaris are prop. investments whereas all others are PN investments which would be transferred to another PN holder (probably Deutche) just like Bear Stearns, Lehman, ML and MS did in the past few months.
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I think Karuturi is a real investment by Citi on the basis of shareholding pattern as of 30/09/2008.
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Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 24/Nov/2008 at 1:13pm
This from Yahoo!.....
Government unveils bold plan to rescue
Citigroup
By JEANNINE AVERSA, AP Economics Writer
Jeannine Aversa, Ap Economics Writer – 18 mins ago
WASHINGTON – The government unveiled
a bold plan Sunday to rescue Citigroup, injecting a fresh $20 billion
into the troubled firm as well as guaranteeing hundreds of billions
of dollars in risky assets.
The action, announced jointly by the
Treasury Department, the Federal Reserve and the Federal Deposit
Insurance Corp., is aimed at shoring up a huge financial institution
whose collapse would wreak havoc on the already crippled financial
system and the U.S. economy.
The sweeping plan is geared to stemming
a crisis of confidence in the company, whose stock has been hammered
in the past week on worries about its financial health.
"With these transactions, the U.S.
government is taking the actions necessary to strengthen the
financial system and protect U.S. taxpayers and the U.S. economy,"
the three agencies said in a statement issued late Sunday night. "We
will continue to use all of our resources to preserve the strength of
our banking institutions, and promote the process of repair and
recovery and to manage risks."
The move is the latest in a string of
high-profile government bailout efforts. The Fed in March provided
financial backing to JPMorgan Chase's buyout of ailing Bear Stearns.
Six months later, the government was forced to take over mortgage
giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and throw a financial lifeline —
which was recently rejiggered — to insurer American International
Group.
Critics worry the actions could put
billions of taxpayers' dollars in jeopardy and encourage financial
companies to take excessive risk on the belief that the government
will bail them out of their messes.
The Citigroup rescue came after a
weekend of marathon discussions led by Treasury Secretary Henry
Paulson and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke. Timothy Geithner, president of
the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, who is being tapped by
President-elect Barack Obama as his Treasury chief also participated.
Investors reacted cautiously to the
plan. Most Asian stock markets retreated when they opened Monday,
weighed down by worries about Citigroup. However, losses were pared
after the government announcement.
The $20 billion cash injection by the
Treasury Department will come from the $700 billion financial bailout
package. The capital infusion follows an earlier one — of $25
billion — in Citigroup in which the government also received an
ownership stake.
As part of the plan, Treasury and the
FDIC will guarantee against the "possibility of unusually large
losses" on up to $306 billion of risky loans and securities
backed by commercial and residential mortgages.
Under the loss-sharing arrangement,
Citigroup Inc. will assume the first $29 billion in losses on the
risky pool of assets. Beyond that amount, the government would absorb
90 percent of the remaining losses, and Citigroup 10 percent. Money
from the $700 billion bailout and funds from the FDIC would cover the
government's portion of potential losses. The Federal Reserve would
finance the remaining assets with a loan to Citigroup.
In exchange for the guarantees, the
government will get $7 billion in preferred shares of Citigroup.
As a condition of the rescue, Citigroup
is barred from paying quarterly dividends to shareholders of more
than 1 cent a share for three years unless the company obtains
consent from the three federal agencies. The bank is currently paying
a dividend of 16 cents, halved from a 32-cent payout in the previous
quarter. The agreement also places restrictions on executive
compensation, including bonuses.
Importantly, the agreement calls on
Citigroup to take steps to help distressed homeowners.
Specifically, Citigroup will modify
mortgages to help people avoid foreclosure along the lines of an FDIC
plan that was put into effect at IndyMac Bank, a major failed savings
and loan based in Pasadena, Calif.
Under the IndyMac plan, struggling home
borrowers pay interest rates of about three percent for five years.
Rates are reduced so that borrowers aren't paying more than 38
percent of their pretax income on housing.
The IndyMac plan also was used as a
model for a new program by mortgage finance companies Fannie Mae and
Freddie Mac and for two other failed thrifts taken over by the
government on Friday. FDIC Chairman Sheila Bair has been pressing
Treasury to use $24 billion from the $700 billion bailout program to
put the mortgage modification program on national footing, but
Paulson is opposed to that idea.
The once mighty Citigroup, which had at
one time been the largest U.S. bank by assets, has seen its shares
lose 60 percent of their value in the past week, reflecting a crisis
of confidence among skittish investors. They are worried all the
risky debt on Citigroup's balance sheet will turn into losses as the
economy worsens and the markets stay turbulent — losses that could
be nearly impossible to reverse.
Citigroup is such a large,
interconnected player in the financial system that it is seen by
Washington policymakers as too big to fail. The company has
operations stretching around the globe in more than 100 countries.
Analysts consider Citigroup the most
vulnerable among the major U.S. banks — especially after it failed
to nab Wachovia Corp., which was bought instead by Wells Fargo &
Co. That was a missed opportunity for Citi to gets its hands on
much-needed U.S. deposits that would bolster its cash position.
Citigroup was especially hard hit by
the meltdown in risky, subprime mortgages made to people with
tarnished credit or low incomes. Foreclosures on those mortgages
spiked, leaving Citi and other financial companies wracking up huge
losses on the soured investments. The company has failed to turn a
profit during the past four quarters and has announced plans to slash
thousands of jobs.
____
Associated Press Writer Marcy Gordon
contributed to this report.
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Posted By: praveen
Date Posted: 24/Nov/2008 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by deveshkayal
Investors haven't learnt the difference between prop. investments and P-Notes investments. HDFC and Polaris are prop. investments whereas all others are PN investments which would be transferred to another PN holder (probably Deutche) just like Bear Stearns, Lehman, ML and MS did in the past few months. |
I do understand the difference between the two but I also understand the investor sentiment out there. The fact that an investor A who has an account with Citi on behalf of which Citi has invested may choose to route its investment through some other party but he may also redeem his investment and taking his money elsewhere, thus forcing Citi to sell the stake.
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Posted By: Mahesh_N
Date Posted: 24/Nov/2008 at 9:42pm
Citi gets $20 bn bailout.
Stock up 60 % today.
Can anyone please throw some light on the Gulf support to Citi...
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Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 26/Nov/2008 at 10:41am
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1209537 - Citigroup 'went wrong' on realty: Vikram Pandit
Shri Pandit jee
With due respect, the Citi went wrong not only with Realty but with the Reality. Those highly educated MBAs acted on what Buffett calls 'the institutional imperative'.
------------- Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards
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Posted By: Mohan
Date Posted: 27/Nov/2008 at 9:19pm
I did see the interview and have to say, With no respect to Pandit, ( complete contempt actually ) He is an shameless obnoxious jerk who did not acknowledge the reality of the situation that Citi is in and that he is part of the problem. Kept talking ( boasting actually ) about the size and scale of operations of Citi. Completely blind to its profits or lack of it actually. ( In Typical suit boot wala behavior )
It has the worst return ratios of any large bank. Just scaling up in size does not scale up profits. ICICI should learn from this mess and relook its strategy.
As far as the Highly educated MBA's tag. I would call them dumb Programmed fools.
------------- Be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy when others are fearful.
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Posted By: PrashantS
Date Posted: 27/Nov/2008 at 5:17am
Mr mohan we have no right to say someone is shameless...btw it is not easy to fit into such position.No bank will come and accept its real numbers including our own banks.In markets nothing is all safe...so i hope u dont condemn anyone just like that
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Posted By: xbox
Date Posted: 27/Nov/2008 at 9:45am
Originally posted by PrashantS
Mr mohan we have no right to say someone is shameless...btw it is not easy to fit into such position.No bank will come and accept its real numbers including our own banks.In markets nothing is all safe...so i hope u dont condemn anyone just like that |
Blaming on Pandit is like firing gun too soon without judging the ground reality...after all he was not the one responsible for current Citi condition.
------------- Don't bet on pig after all bull & bear in circle.
|
Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 27/Nov/2008 at 9:52am
Originally posted by xbox
Originally posted by PrashantS
Mr mohan we have no right to say someone is shameless...btw it is not easy to fit into such position.No bank will come and accept its real numbers including our own banks.In markets nothing is all safe...so i hope u dont condemn anyone just like that |
Blaming on Pandit is like firing gun too soon without judging the ground reality...after all he was not the one responsible for current Citi condition. |
But he should talk sense and admit the truth. Citibank is the closest thing to Enron in years. He should know that by now.
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Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 29/Jan/2009 at 4:24pm
Citi grounded | |
Business Standard / New Delhi January 29, 2009, 0:59 IST |
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After
US politicians raised a stink over Citigroup’s plans to spend $50
million to buy an executive jet, the bank has cancelled its plans.
Reuters quotes a person familiar with the deal to say the jet in
question was a Dassault Falcon 7X. The bank has been quoted as saying
that it will have to pay millions in terms of penalties for cancelling
a deal it had entered into way back in 2005 — presumably this is less
costly than the possibility of turning Congress against it, especially
since the bank could just need to go there again for another bailout.
Corporate jets are a big thing with Congress — when the chiefs of Big
Auto firms came to Washington to plead for a bailout, the fact that
they flew in on separate corporate jets had become a big issue as well.
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Posted By: Mohan
Date Posted: 05/Mar/2009 at 11:23pm
Originally posted by kulman
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1209537 - Citigroup 'went wrong' on realty: Vikram Pandit
Shri Pandit jee
With due respect, the Citi went wrong not only with Realty but with the Reality. Those highly educated MBAs acted on what Buffett calls 'the institutional imperative'.
|
CITI went wrong. period. closer to 0 today. Will get delisted soon. Under Pandit's tenure. Took the mother of all recessions to expose flaw in Citi's business plan.
------------- Be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy when others are fearful.
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