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basant
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Quote basant Replybullet Topic: Value Stocks - What to look out for?
    Posted: 05/Oct/2006 at 2:23pm
Investor: In this market I have seen that there is enough value every where but investors will make money when a value stock does not remain a value any more. The trick that we have to use is to identify such stocks that are value right now but would not remain value after 2-3 years more often then not we need an external catalyst to unlock this value. SOmetimes it happens in 2 years and we think we rae smart and sometimes it remains that way for 5 years but we still keep holding on thinking of ourselves as long term patient non mommentum non greedy investors.
 
See you invested in Mc Dowell and you know that at Rs 40 it was value and now it is not but in between you have made a 15 bagger that is what matters. Had .Mc Dowell been value today also you would bot have made money and that as they say "hurts".


Edited by basant - 05/Oct/2006 at 6:47pm
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Quote investor Replybullet Posted: 05/Oct/2006 at 2:42pm
you bring up a very interesting point with

" The trick that we have to use is to identify such stocks that are value right now but would not remain value after 2-3 years"

I have never really thought about it from that perspective, but you are absolutely right. If Mcdowell hadnt moved significantly from then till now, who
knows if i wouldve still held on to it or not(most likely not, as i wouldve dumped it in 4-6 months time!!)

Will add this point to my checklist for BUYING stocks...
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Quote Equity Buff Replybullet Posted: 05/Oct/2006 at 5:32pm

there is enough value every where but investors will make money when a value stock does not remain a value any more. The trick that we have to use is to identify such stocks that are value right now but would not remain value after 2-3 years more often then not we need an external catalyst to unlock this value.

Basantjee,
 
A) In above post, are you talking about identifying growth stocks which are value now but based on expected earnings growth (scale of opportunity) could become growth stocks in future ? If you meant something else then pls see point B) below.
 
                                         
B) Have you discovered from experience any indications/pointers to identify such stocks which are value right now but would not remain value after 2-3 years.
 
Rgds.


Edited by Equity Buff - 05/Oct/2006 at 6:56pm
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Quote Equity Buff Replybullet Posted: 05/Oct/2006 at 7:49pm

Basantjee,

Maybe you have missed the above post. Await your reply.
 
Rgds.
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 05/Oct/2006 at 7:51pm

I generally try and follow (1) above.

You see when I first bought they had the following value attributes:
 
Pantaloon Retail Traded at a PE of 8 times and market cap to sales of 0.2 times sales and growing at 100% each year (that is what Biyani said and most of the investors thought that he could not - but for me that was already in the price)
 
TV 18  Traded at  a market cap of Rs 200 crores and a PE of 10 times to current year.
 
Trent  Had Rs 120 per share in cash on its balance sheet so you were getting the whole retailing business for Rs 40/share or rs 60 crores
 
Now all these stocks became value to growth (non value) in 3 years and that is where most of the money is made. A value stock will deliver returns only if it is backed by growth and there is almost no other way to create returns except then those listed below:
 
2)Land/investment sale
 
But in both the cases above as in many others investors would have to be very sure whether this process would happen or not.EVen if a spin off/ merger, stake sale happens the sharehoilders should be benefitted and unless that is done no one can make money.FOr instande if XYZ Ltd sells off its land and uses the money into other low RoE businesses then theren was no value added. That is why the management becomes very important.
 
 
Most of the times these value unlocking measures are not implemented and investors are left holding a stock that looked value for the entire length of the bull market period thinking of themselves to be patient, long term, value, non mommentum, non greedy investors.
 
There are many such stocks that have not moved and the experts keep calling them for the "patient, long term, value, non mommentum, non greedy investors." but the point is that this is what the investor is settling for when value has not got unlocked not thoyught of it upfront.
 
Generally the maximum money (multibaggers) are made when a stock changes its attributes from value to growth and then it can only out perform the market but to predict whether it would change from value to growth is all that takes to make a ten bagger.Most of the times it is the company growth rate that acts as a catalyst in this process.
 
Value stocks would deliver market driven rates of return through dividend. minor appreciation etc.
 
 
 


Edited by basant - 05/Oct/2006 at 7:54pm
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Quote Equity Buff Replybullet Posted: 05/Oct/2006 at 7:56pm
Basantjee,
 
Thanks for the detailed reply.
That was really quick after my above post at 6.49 p.m.!!
 
Warm Regards.
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 05/Oct/2006 at 8:12pm
I was actually writing when you put in your post!
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Quote Equity Buff Replybullet Posted: 05/Oct/2006 at 8:16pm
Basantjee,
 
A) What was the market cap of Pantaloon when you bought it ? (0.2 times sales, since sales is not given in your post above).
 
B) What was the maket cap/sales of TV 18 when you bought it ? Also you say P/E of 10 times current year, what year ? (certainly not current year meaning FY 07 ).
 
C) Looks like you bought Trent at Rs. 160/share. What was the P/E at that time ?
 
Rgds
Equity Buff


Edited by Equity Buff - 05/Oct/2006 at 8:20pm
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