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kulman
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Quote kulman Replybullet Topic: The EBIDTA - Compare across Cos.
    Posted: 02/Oct/2006 at 8:17pm
Whle on this subject, could you also provide a brief on EBIDTA and its application in valuations. How much shall one read into it?
 
I came across an article on EBIDTA which may be accessed here, the extract is given below:
 
If you want to find out what your business will fetch, you'll have to tackle something called Ebitda. This tongue-twisting acronym stands for earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization and is a metric that allows you (and a potential buyer) to value your company based on its cash flow. It also makes it easier to compare your business with others in your industry that might be subject to different tax and depreciation rates and debt levels.
Multiply these numbers times your Ebitda or cash flow to get a ballpark estimate of your business's worth:
  • Manufacturing: 5.5 to 8.5
  • High tech: 6 to 12
  • Health-care services: 5 to 9
  • Retail: 4.5 to 7.5
  • Public relations, advertising, media: 3 to 6.5
  • Restaurants: 4 to 8
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Ajith
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Quote Ajith Replybullet Posted: 02/Oct/2006 at 10:18pm
A very useful measure especially to discover undervalued companies with high depreciation ,low interest like say Machino Plastics.
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 02/Oct/2006 at 11:34pm
Generally the EV/EBIDTA is another measure of finding out the company's total value = Equity + Debt(-cash). But I would generally prefer to use it as a tool for comparision rather then a tool for analysis. For instance in 2001 steel companies had a very high EV/EBIDTA of around 20 times but now that seems to be at 4-5 times.ALl the while in hindsight it has made sense to buy in 2001 rather then it makes sense to buy it now.
 
A company's value is for ever while profits are for a year and do keep changing. ANother way of ;looking at this is the crude way of thinking these figures to be PE ratios and then comparing across companioes
 in the same sector.
 
I think that this measure is theoratical rather then of any practical nature it does not talk about management; sector leadership etc so we may just use  it to compare companies broadly.
 
Finally these are estimates for developed markets so cannot be used in India where growth is stronger.
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Quote Ajith Replybullet Posted: 02/Oct/2006 at 8:05am

I agree and would give greater importance to non-financial(ratio)factors as a basis for stock selection..Negative factors often but not always of a financia(ratio)nature supressess the stock price temporarily and are opportunities like say  Bharti Tele in the past and Trent at present.

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Quote kulman Replybullet Posted: 07/Mar/2007 at 10:47am
How retail investors can profit from EV/EBITDA

Equity share valuation is all about choosing the suitable multiple, says Mr Sanjiv Agrawal, Partner and National Head - Valuation Services, Ernst & Young. "Across the financial press targeted at retail investors, one factor that strikes a corporate analyst is the focus on price earnings (PE) multiple with minimal importance given to other multiples, enterprise value/earnings before interest, tax and depreciation & amortisation (EV/EBITDA) multiple in particular," he observes.

Here is Mr Agrawal's take on a few questions from Business Line.

What is the reason for the common bias towards PE multiple?

This may be attributable to the fact that PE multiple is relatively easier to calculate based on published results of listed companies compared to the EV/EBITDA multiple. In contrast, most analysts would swear by EV/EBITDA multiple.

Why so?

In our view, the EV/EBITDA is a smarter ratio to be used as part of comparable multiples analysis. Smarter, because it is purely driven by business operations of the company unlike PE multiple, which additionally gets impacted by non-business factors of discretionary or non-recurring nature. Non-business factors are usually less predictable from retail investors' point of view.

PE is so simple to calculate: Price per share divided by the EPS (earnings per share). And you are bashing it?

Simple to calculate, yes; but it has several deficiencies, especially in the Indian context. Most Indian companies' P&L (profit and loss) accounts feature significant 'other income', which is usually not related to business operations and varies a lot fr om year to year.

Also, by definition, growth drivers and risk factors of 'other income' are quite different from income from business operations. A key item is income from investments, which is driven mainly by interest rate scenario, investments sale activity during the year, and also non-market rate related investments made by the company (in related entities).

Another item usually is non-recurring income, which by definition should not be considered for valuation analysis, as it is neither recurring, nor predictable.

Does it also matter that PE multiple is influenced by interest and depreciation expense?

Another deficiency, this is, of PE multiple. Both these items, interest and depreciation, which are charged to P&L, are not uniform across businesses. Interest expense is dependent upon credit rating of borrower and the gearing employed in the business, both of which can be different for a potential buyer of that business and so may not be very useful for market value analysis.

Depreciation charge can be quite different based upon age profile of assets and policies vis-ŕ-vis the straight line method vs the WDV (written down value) method of depreciation followed by various companies.

If we decide to switch to the alternative, that is, the EV/EBITDA multiple, how do we go about the exercise?

It should first be noted that the EV/EBITDA multiple, being a brilliant metric, is more tedious to compute than the PE multiple. EBITDA, the denominator, overcomes all the deficiencies that PE suffers from. But, one needs to make some adjustments...

Such as?

Add back to 'net profit after tax' the charge for depreciation, interest and tax, and also remove the non-operating/non-recurring items of income/expense. The removal of latter items may not be easily possible as requisite information is not very transparent in annual accounts as per Indian company law format.

Making adjustments to the price, i.e. market cap is a little more tedious in fact. One needs to reduce market value of non-operating assets (e.g. surplus properties, investments, loans to group companies) from market cap. Loan funds borrowed by the company need to be added to the market cap to arrive at EV, the enterprise value.

On how the metric can be put to use.

The EV/EBITDA multiple can be compared to probe real (business) or market imperfection related reasons for differences in EV/EBITDA multiple across various comparable companies. A similar PE multiple analysis will not be amenable to this probing.

For example?

Two companies in a sector may have similar PE multiple but very different EV/EBITDA multiple. A PE multiple analysis may suggest that both are similarly valued by the market whereas in reality EV/EBITDA multiple analysis will highlight use of very different multiples for business valuation of the two companies by the market.

EV/EBITDA multiple analysis may upon further probing suggest that market will likely in future work towards converging both companies' EV/EBITDA multiple to a similar level (assuming broad operating similarities in the companies), providing basis for buy or sell investment opportunities.

And, in the converse?

On the converse, similar EV/EBITDA multiples but very different PE multiples may not suggest converging of both companies' PE multiples. The divergence of PE multiples may be due to non-operational reasons. For instance, the company with lower PE multiple may have invested significant sums in related entities with lower than market returns. And so, the latter will not yield any significant buy/sell opportunity for an investor.

The bottom line, therefore?

EV/EBITDA ratio's increased usage would benefit capital markets also as retail investors appraise corporate managements more effectively while making smarter investment decisions for themselves. We need to help retail investors by providing this ratio to them periodically.

------------------------------------

While the above post makes interestin reading. It is doubtful whether it is practically useful.

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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 07/Mar/2007 at 11:04am
It does assume significance when we analyse a company that is in the supernormal phase of growth. For example a companmy could be aggressively borrowing to expand capapcity. This would increase interest and depreciation expenses but EV/EBIDTA would remain less affected.
 
Such companies do create an optical illusion of being overpriced because the profits are impacted by higher interest and depreciation costs.
 
What investors need to realise is that this increase in interest and depreciation would have benefits flowing in later years whereas the crude numbers in terms of EPS does not reflect that.
 
That is why I try to see the direction which EV?EBIDTA is taking before dismissing a growth stock as being overpriced.
 
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Quote kulman Replybullet Posted: 07/Mar/2007 at 11:14am
Please give an illustrative example, if possible to enable laymen's understanding.
 
 
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 07/Mar/2007 at 11:43am
If you see Pantaloon's results in thec coming quarters their operating profit will rise MORE then the net profit. So
 
PE = Market cap/Net profit ; since we divide both numerator and denominator by number of shares to get Market price/EPS
 
So because net profits do not go up (higher depreciation and interest costs) the PE would be high but if you look at EV/EBIDTA it would appear less costly because it does not consider dep and int which is added back.
 
EV does have that additional debt component while cash/short term investments!are deducted from it.
 
Guess this woukld make it a bit more clear.
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