Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin

Large Cap Blue Chips
 The Equity Desk Forum :Investment Ideas - Creating winning portfolios! :Large Cap Blue Chips
Message Icon Topic: Sun Pharmaceuticals- A classic spin off play Post Reply Post New Topic
Page  of 7 Next >>
Author Message
prosperity
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 01/Sep/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 546
Quote prosperity Replybullet Topic: Sun Pharmaceuticals- A classic spin off play
    Posted: 25/Sep/2006 at 6:34pm
Mr. Basant,
 
Sunpharma is splitting its R&D as a separate venture ... Does it makes sense to sell the shares of the R&D venture and buy the main sun pharma shares ?
 
What the promotors do would be a good indicator ..
 
But wanted your opinion - specially coz you said 2 things -
 
A) we should have stronger business shares out of the demerged entities - so R&D is always a cost center and not a profit center .. hence it cannot outperform the main sunpharma company
 
B) the less the EPS of the demerged entity the more would be the gain for the other remaining demerged entities ... hence it applies to the situation in which a cost center like R&D of the business is getting demerged from its parent business..
 
Anyways, pls. do NOT get biased from my above A) and B) and give your independent opinion - may be for some reason that you know holding the demerged company can be good - an outperformer ! 
 
and if thatz the case, i don't know and hence seek ur opinion..
 
thanks for your time and effort !  


Edited by prosperity - 03/Sep/2007 at 8:50pm
IP IP Logged
basant
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 01/Jan/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 18403
Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 25/Sep/2006 at 10:24pm
Since I have  no specific knowledge on Sun pharma I am providing my views as per the business:
 
1) The cost center (R&D) division would have been a drag on the company's overall EPS/RoE etc.
2) Now once the R&D dept. is spun off from the main businessshoukd be rerated.
3) What would be important to know is where would the management fund the R&D division from. WOuld they list it and give shares to the existing shareholders? That looks unlikely because you cannot list a cost center.
4) If they do with (3) above then the main company shall be buying out or doing all research activities through the R&D Dept.
5) If they go in for a 100% subsidiary company on the R&D then this would not be a case of spin off: A spin off case would benefit shareholderswhen:
a) The division is listed a s a seperate company
b) Existing shareholders are given shares of thsi listed company. 
 
 
please confirm the modus operandi in Sun Pharma?
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
IP IP Logged
prosperity
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 01/Sep/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 546
Quote prosperity Replybullet Posted: 25/Sep/2006 at 11:12pm
Basantji,
 
They are listing shares of R&D business and demerger ratio is also known.. For every held share of sunpharma, exisiting shareholders would get 1 share of R&D business.. The new company is not a subsidiary of existing company...
 
 
In one of your multibaggers post where you listed the stocks which has been multibaggers in past 10 years and listed from more than 10 years.. Sunpharma was one of them .. i have it since past 3 years ...
 
It has been a  6x    multibagger for me on my initial investment AND
It has been a  4.5x multibagger for me on my all investments (average) 
 
It still is attractive - because it is a LEADER in the FUTURE sectors
 
Neurology, Cardiology, etc etc..  all  "lifestyle diseases"
 
No. 1 in India in speciality therapy areas like psychiatry, neurology, cardiology, among the top 3 companies in a total of 7 therapy areas
 
And the way it acquired Caraco of US .... lookout for a loss making company, exchange shares for giving medical technology, turnaround the company and in turn get the ownership of that company - SUPERB !
 
Anyways, i am getting carried away .. so stopping now !
 
Thanx as always


Edited by prosperity - 25/Sep/2006 at 11:14pm
IP IP Logged
basant
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 01/Jan/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 18403
Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 25/Sep/2006 at 12:11pm
Went through this. Seems to be a classic case of a spin off  which should add significant value.You have been following the company for some time and could also add in case of declines/panic.
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
IP IP Logged
prosperity
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 01/Sep/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 546
Quote prosperity Replybullet Posted: 25/Sep/2006 at 12:33pm
Yes Basantji,
 
Adding is difficult because it has run way above my cost price
Since its already overweight #2, my asset allocation would get skewed if i invest more in this company...
 
And its a slow steady mover ... zero debt .. warren buffet company ..
 
But the real question on this that i had was/in -
After the spinoff, should i sell the demerged R&D business and buy the mainstream business with the same shares ?
 
 
IP IP Logged
basant
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 01/Jan/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 18403
Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 25/Sep/2006 at 12:38pm
Shall do a write up on this in the morning.
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
IP IP Logged
basant
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 01/Jan/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 18403
Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 26/Sep/2006 at 12:02pm

Sun Pharmaceuticals- A classic spin off play.

 

Sun Pharmaceuticals (CMP Rs 923) is one of the best plays in the Indian pharmaceutical space. While the company has lined up a slew of R&D Products it has not let these developments disturb its over all profitability. Over the past couple of years Sun has focused on niche and chronic therapies and has tried to put down a controlled cost structure. Recently it did US acquisitions which has fared out quite well.

 

The company has announced the spin off the R&D division as a separately listed company with some cash and assets from the parent. Shareholders of Sun Pharma will be issued shares in the R&D company on pro rata basis..

 

Sun has a pipeline of more then 50 ANDAs pending approval, including Para IV filings, injectibles and complex products. This pipeline is equivalent to those of Ranbaxy and Dr. Reddy’s Sun plans to file about 30 ANDAs each year in the future.

 

Financial Synopsis

CMP

Rs 928.20

Market Cap

Rs 17,256

Book value

Rs 78.80

Sales Fy 06

Rs 1742.92 crores

EPS Fy 06

Rs 24.06

PE

39 times

RoE

35.93%

Operating margin

31.02%

Potential add on to Operating margin after the R & D spin off

10-11%

Will the profits grow by all the money saved on R&D Spend

No, there will be a loss of tax shield and also increases in generic research spend.

 

 

The company has increased its sale by 23.33% CAGR over the last 4 years to Rs 1742.92 crores from Rs 753.10 crores. Net profit during the same period has grown by 28.11% CAGR to Rs 461.29 crores from Rs 171.20 crores. During the same period the operating profit margin has expanded to 31.02% from 27.66%

 

The stock trades at a current year PE of about 32 times which is high. But PE is surely not the best way to analyze Pharmaceutical companies The R&D hive off should increase margins and net profit by an additional 20%.

The management recently said that the first phase of its Project at Sikkim first phase will be operational by March 2007 and the second phase should be up by 2009. This 300 crore units capacity should increase overall capacity by 20 per cent

Over the next few years SUN Pharma should expand its global operations and bring it upto 50 per cent of total sales.

The demerger of the R&D division will create spin off benefits and shall lead to a rerating of the stock.

 

What should investors do post the demerger?

 

1)      Post demerger the R&D company stock could be hammered down. This is because it would have no earnings and investors would look at PE and EPS thus forgetting the long term viability of the stock.

2)      The main business will see a rerating. The incremental profit that would arise because of the decrease in R&D spending will ensure that the EPS grows at a higher level then what is generally expected.

3)     The fact that the company is hiving off its R&D business into a separate entity means that the company expects revenues to flow into its R&D business very soon.

 

Generally it would make sense to look at valuations and in case the market gives the R&D Company a thumbs down smart investors should move in and buy this focused research play for the long term. If the market values this R&D on expected lines then also it deserves to be held because the real kicker would come in from the R&D Company rather then the main business. At present the stock does look fairly valued and but the value unlocking could come from the spin off only.

 

 

                                                                                   Source: Company feedback and media reports

'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
IP IP Logged
investor
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/Sep/2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1745
Quote investor Replybullet Posted: 26/Sep/2006 at 2:51pm
Prosperity,

Since you have been holding SUN PHARMA for so long, then i assume you
also the 6% Cumulative Preference Shares(of FV Re: 10) which they gave as
bonus shares a few years ago.

If so, can you tell me this:
They have now opened a second redemption period for those shares from October 1st 2006 to December 31st 2006. I am holding 240 cumulative pref
shares. If i submit them in this open offer, what is the price i will get for it.

Please do let me know. Thanks.


IP IP Logged
Page  of 7 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.
Bookmark this Page

Join Theequitydesk.com Today!

It’s easy to Join and it’s free.

Here's why members would love to be a part of theequitydesk.com

  • Equity Desk focuses on why to buy shares and invest in share rather than what to buy.
  • Live discussion forum wherein members can discuss the current Indian share Market trend, BSE Sensex or the Nifty Index.
  • Have huge cache of information on Indian and World Share Market.
  • Analysis of Indian stock market, Global events, Investing insights, portfolio management strategies and thoughts,
  • Meet investors from round the globe check their investing strategies share experiences and learn for their experiences on stocks and shares, evaluate opinions on investing in India.

Register now while it’s free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us           Close