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Buffet, Lynch and other legends - Investing Strategies
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deepinsight
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Quote deepinsight Replybullet Topic: Philip A Fisher - The Scuttlebutt man
    Posted: 12/Mar/2008 at 5:13pm

Philip A Fisher

Job description

Investment advisor at his own San Francisco-based firm.

Investment style

Ultra long-term buy-and-hold investor in technology growth stocks.

Profile

After training as an analyst in a San Francisco bank, Phil Fisher started his own investment advisory business in 1931. He has always specialized in the type of firm for which California is best known: innovative technology companies driven by research and development. But he began almost 40 years before the name Silicon Valley was even thought of.

The firms he bought for his clients then were relatively low-tech, such as Dow Chemical or Food Machinery Corporation. Later on, he was one of the first professional investors to recognize the merits of hi-tech firms like Motorola and Texas Instruments when they were starting out.

Now in his nineties, he is still working in the same way he has always done. He is an extremely logical and methodical man, who only selects companies for purchase after a painstaking process of trawling through trade literature and interviewing managers and competitors. But he also has an unconventional and contrarian turn of mind, which helps him to spot value before the crowd.

Long-term returns

Not known.

Biggest success

Fisher acquired a lot of stock in Texas Instruments in 1956, long before it went public in 1970. It was first quoted at around $2.70, and has recently gone as high as $200 - a rise of 7,400% even without dividends. Fisher's own gains have probably been significantly higher, given that he bought the shares privately.

Methods and guidelines

Concentrate your attention and your cash on young growth stocks.

In order to identify and research promising prospects,

§  r Read everything you can lay your hands on, from trade journals to brokers' reports

§  inInterview those in the know, such as managers and employees, but especially suppliers, customers and competitors, who will be more forthcoming

§  viVisit various company sites if you can, and not just the headquarters.

Before you buy, make sure you get satisfactory answers to 15 key questions:

  1. Does the company have products or services with sufficient market potential to make possible a sizeable increase in sales for at least several years?
  2. Does the management have a determination to continue to develop products or processes that will still further increase total sales potentials when the growth potentials of currently attractive product lines have largely been exploited?
  3. How effective are the company's research and development efforts in relation to its size?
  4. Does the company have an above average sales organization?
  5. Does the company have a worthwhile profit margin?
  6. What is the company doing to maintain or improve profit margins?
  7. Does the company have outstanding labour and personnel relations?
  8. Does the company have outstanding executive relations?
  9. Does the company have depth to its management?
  10. How good are the company's cost analysis and accounting controls?
  11. Are there other aspects of the business, somewhat peculiar to the industry involved, which will give the investor important clues as to how outstanding the company may be in relation to its competition?
  12. Does the company have a short-range or a long-range outlook in regard to profits?
  13. In the foreseeable future, will the growth of the company require sufficient equity financing so that the larger number of shares then outstanding will largely cancel the existing stockholders' benefit from this anticipated growth?
  14. Does the management talk freely to investors about its affairs when things are going well, but 'clam up' when troubles and disappointments occur?
  15. Does the company have a management of unquestionable integrity?

Source:Common Stocks and Uncommon Profits, P Fisher, 1958

There are only ever three reasons to sell:

  1. If you have made a serious mistake in your assessment of the company
  2. If the company no longer passes the 15 tests as clearly as it did before
  3. If you could reinvest your money in another, far more attractive company. But before you do this, you must be very sure of your reasoning.

Key sayings

"I don't want a lot of good investments; I want a few outstanding ones."

"The greatest investment reward comes to those who by good luck or good sense find the occasional company that over the years can grow in sales and profits far more than industry as a whole."

"The business 'grapevine' is a remarkable thing. It is amazing what an accurate picture of the relative points of strength and weakness of each company in an industry can be obtained from a representative cross-section of the opinions of those who in one way or another are concerned with any particular company."

"If the job has been correctly done when a common stock is purchased, the time to sell it is - almost never."

Further information

Fisher outlined his views and methods in the book Common Stocks and Uncommon Profits, first published in 1958. The 1996 edition published by J Wiley also comprises two shorter pieces, 'Conservative Investors Sleep Well' and 'Developing an Investment Philosophy', a highly educational account of his early experiences.

http://www.incademy.com/courses/Ten-great-investors/-Warren-Buffett/3/1040/10002



Edited by deepinsight - 12/Mar/2008 at 5:15pm
"Investing is simple, but not easy." - Warren Buffet
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Janak.merchant1
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Quote Janak.merchant1 Replybullet Posted: 17/Apr/2008 at 11:13pm
Thanks Depinsight for writing about scuttlebutt god. Few of his quotes few people might find useful.
 
PF: The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.
 
Buy stocks with long range potential and stay with them.
 
There is no real standard of measurement of what's good.
 
To make the really really long range gains, there are a couple of things that are necessary. And first is outstanding management.
 
I don't like change. But i have no choice.
 
One way to recognise great management is to look for management's response to change. Those with the right people and the desire to improve are those that grow and progress whereas those that live with the status quo  decline.
 
Best wishes,
 
JM
I love my money, not my opinion. So i am ready and willing to change my opinion for the sake of protecting my money.
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deepinsight
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Quote deepinsight Replybullet Posted: 17/Apr/2008 at 5:02am
"Investing is simple, but not easy." - Warren Buffet
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nitin_jagtap
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Quote nitin_jagtap Replybullet Posted: 17/Apr/2008 at 8:43am
All I can say about PF is he is the Boss of the bosses or king of kings .
Warm REgards
Nitin Jagtap
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Vivek Sukhani
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Quote Vivek Sukhani Replybullet Posted: 18/Apr/2008 at 1:40pm
okay......but can investors, ordinary and poor, go through such a painstaking process?
 
good to understand but difficult to follow in case you have basic industry stocks loaded in your portfolio.
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atulbull
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Quote atulbull Replybullet Posted: 09/May/2009 at 2:23pm

How Can Value Investors Apply Philip Fisher’s Investment Principles?

April-25-2009

I first read Philip A. Fisher’s classic book on investing several years ago after first reading everything I could find written by Benjamin Graham and Warren Buffett. I picked up Common Stocks and Uncommon Profits primarily because of a quote by Warren Buffett on the cover of my copy. That quote carries a strong endorsement: “I am an eager reader of whatever Phil has to say, and I recommend him to you. — Warren Buffett”. What is fascinating is that the investment approach described by Fisher is, at first glance, about as different from Benjamin Graham’s approach as one can imagine. If Graham is known as the father of value investing, Fisher is equally well recognized as the father of growth investing. I believe that the combination of both approaches has been responsible for the amazing growth of Berkshire Hathaway over the past four decades.

Common Stocks and Uncommon Profits was published in 1958, about a decade after Graham published The Intelligent Investor. Both men had experienced the years of the Great Depression and proposed detailed systems for investors to capture the substantial returns offered by well chosen stocks while avoiding the pitfalls that can result in permanent loss of capital. Yet there were substantial differences in approach. While Graham’s advice for the enterprising investor relied on securing interests in companies with well established track records generally at low valuations, Fisher was much more open about the concept of seeking out truly outstanding businesses and being willing to pay higher valuations in exchange for the prospect of much higher returns.

Fisher also believed in what he referred to as “Scuttlebutt”. Essentially, scuttlebutt involves seeking out information about a business from both published sources as well as through the “business grapevine”. By speaking to the management of a prospective investment, competitors, suppliers, and customers, one can often assemble a view of the business that a pure quantitative analysis could not reveal. In recent years, speaking to company management has grown more difficult with the implementation of “Regulation Fair Disclosure” and other measures intended to promote simultaneous disclosure of all relevant facts. However, Fisher’s main point is still valid in terms of looking beyond the numbers to gain a better understanding of the nature of a business.

Checklists For Better Decision Making

Fisher devotes the bulk of his book to convenient checklists that investors can use to analyze a business. Many of these are in fact quantitative in nature, such as an examination of whether a business has a worthwhile profit margin. However, the majority of the items in his list are more qualitative and focus on such factors as whether management has the right people in research and development, the quality of the sales organization, and overall management depth and integrity. Many of these points are very “forward looking” in nature and intended to measure the kind of growth an investor can project based on qualitative factors.

In addition to providing guidelines for what to purchase, Fisher addresses issues such as when to sell and provides a number of important pointers related to common mistakes, including excessive diversification, buying into promotional companies (think of the dot com bubble), using superficial criteria such as the “tone” of an annual report, and more.

Reading this book reveals many differences in approach between Fisher and Graham, but I would say that the most important difference is that Fisher is much more willing to pay higher valuations for companies with bright future prospects than Graham would be willing to pay. Graham generally avoided “paying up” for projected growth and demanded track records of past performance as well as the presence of book value prior to making commitments. Many growth stocks lack meaningful tangible book value and much of the value associated with such companies reside in brand equity and other forms of goodwill.

See’s Candies: Buffett’s Watershed Investment

According to Roger Lowenstein’s excellent 1995 biography of Warren Buffett, The Making of an American Capitalist, the purchase of See’s in 1971 was not one that Buffett was initially “sold” on when presented with the opportunity. See’s Candies was offered for $30 million and was hardly a Graham style investment. According to Alice Schroeder’s recent Buffett biography, The Snowball, See’s had only $5 million in tangible asset value at the time. Berkshire shareholders can probably credit Charlie Munger, Berkshire’s Vice Chairman, for convincing Buffett to make this investment. Buffett eventually agreed to a $25 million purchase of See’s and based the logic of the purchase on See’s earnings power and brand equity. The valuation paid was approximately 11.4 times trailing earnings. Buffett believed that See’s had significant additional pricing power that was not being leveraged and could sell for premium prices compared to other candies such as Russell Stover.

Let’s see what Buffett had to say about See’s Candies in his 2007 annual letter to shareholders:

:
We bought See’s for $25 million when its sales were $30 million and pre-tax earnings were less than $5 million. The capital then required to conduct the business was $8 million. (Modest seasonal debt was also needed for a few months each year.) Consequently, the company was earning 60% pre-tax on invested capital. Two factors helped to minimize the funds required for operations. First, the product was sold for cash, and that eliminated accounts receivable. Second, the production and distribution cycle was short, which minimized inventories. Last year See’s sales were $383 million, and pre-tax profits were $82 million. The capital now required to run the business is $40 million. This means we have had to reinvest only $32 million since 1972 to handle the modest physical growth – and somewhat immodest financial growth – of the business. In the meantime pre-tax earnings have totaled $1.35 billion. All of that, except for the $32 million, has been sent to Berkshire (or, in the early years, to Blue Chip). After paying corporate taxes on the profits, we have used the rest to buy other attractive businesses.



Clearly See’s Candies is a business that is today worth many times the amount paid to acquire the company in 1971, and it is not a business that requires a high level of invested capital. The value of See’s is the earnings power of the business and that earnings power does not come from tangible equity. It comes from intangible assets, and specifically from the brand equity of the business.

Practical Application of Fisher’s Techniques

What can value investors take away from Philip Fisher’s book and from Warren Buffett’s application of these concepts? I believe that the evidence is overwhelming that buying a business like See’s is far more attractive than buying “cigar butt” investments that are quantitatively cheap but either dying or offering average prospects for the future. However, the big caveat is that any investor seeking the higher payoffs accruing to intangible assets like brand power must be very sure in his analysis to avoid buying into the sort of promotional stocks that Fisher warned us to avoid. In short, knowing your “circle of competence” is critical to avoid paying up for illusory growth and taking the risk of permanent loss of capital. Losing capital permanently is much less likely with Graham’s quantitative approach, but that approach also entails higher turnover and lower potential returns compared to a successful application of Fisher’s techniques.

source:gurufocus
Price is what you pay.Value is what you get.
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basant
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 09/May/2009 at 3:17pm

I believe that the evidence is overwhelming that buying a business like See’s is far more attractive than buying “cigar butt” investments that are quantitatively cheap but either dying or offering average prospects for the future

Always refreshing to read Fisher. In today's market we are getting good businesses at Cigar Butt's valuation. I think we never had it so good. All that an investor needs is a few years of patience buying good businesses at cheap valuations.

'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
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Quote manish_okhade Replybullet Posted: 10/May/2009 at 9:26pm
The beauty of the Phil's technique is he divides the evrything in his book Common Stocks and Uncommon Profits on following thre simple tenets:
 
1) What to buy
2) When to buy
3) When to sale
 
No mathematics, metrics and complications just rigorous study and timings.
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