Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin

Words of Wisdom
 The Equity Desk Forum :Market Strategies :Words of Wisdom
Message Icon Topic: Read how wealth can be created in stocks Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 14 Next >>
Author Message
kulman
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/Sep/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9319
Quote kulman Replybullet Posted: 06/Oct/2007 at 7:48am

Paper wealth against real estate 
 ---Ramganesh Iyer

 
My next-door neighbour is a financially astute man. He has the knack for spotting both strategic and tactical investment opportunities and making good use of his investible surplus.

The other day, we were having tea at my place, while watching that incredible movie, Lage Raho Munnabhai, on TV. As the story progressed to the eviction of elderly men by a mentally ‘bimaar’ villain, my neighbour remarked how he had been very lucky (and smart!) in his house purchase.

While living in his own house in Mumbai, he had spotted a good investment opportunity in one of the suburbs and purchased a second apartment way back in 1995-96. A flat he had then purchased for merely Rs 10 lakh was worth over Rs 50 lakh today, after having earned him rent in the interim, and a tax rebate on the loan he had paid off in five years.

He went on to say how he would invest in a new house or land once every 7-10 years, once his savings reached a certain critical size. What better way to make your assets real and tangible by having them as property instead of paper debt or equity, he asked.
Spectacular returns?

I could not but admire his foresight. But being the finance man I am, my mind drifted off to perform a crude calculation of his return on investment over this period. Rents in this suburb (as with most of the country) yield ~3% per year, which comes down to ~2.5% after taxes, society charges and costs of periodic upkeep and maintenance like plastering, painting, waterproofing, etc.

His investment had roughly multiplied five times in 12 years - a good 14-odd percent annual return. Thus, in all, a handsome year-on-year growth of 17% or so — not a bad deal at all.

I then turned to the alternative avenues his money could have gone into. The Sensex was at 3,000 then - it is at 17,000 today. So if he had invested the Rs 8 lakh in the stock market then, he might have got a return of about 17% here, too, besides a dividend yield of 1.5-2%. Some of the mutual funds that have been in existence since then have given ~25-30% annualised return.

Thus, although his investment was good, it probably was not as spectacular as I had thought earlier. Yes, there is the tax break on loan repayment, but there is also the capital gains tax to be paid on profit in the event he sold the house.

The risk argument
I took the opportunity provided by a commercial break in the movie to run him through my thought process. Initially, he was a bit shocked by the numbers; he had only thought of returns as multiples of investment over the decade, not as annualised ones. But he recovered to argue that the risk was much higher in the stock market than in real estate. “Look at the daily volatility these days,” he said.

But isn’t that a fallacy brought about by the fact that stock prices are reported daily, while real estate movements are not? Real estate prices, too, are known to fluctuate wildly - Mumbai had the great slump after 1995-96 and recovered only in 2003.

Unfortunately, we do not have an index to track the daily real estate prices in the country. Real estate value, by its inherent nature, moves in a jerky and ad hoc fashion, but that does not make it any less volatile or risky. Moreover, his entire net worth is concentrated in real estate in and around Mumbai alone. An adverse movement there would destroy his wealth significantly.

I reiterated to him that I was not trying to belittle his success at investing or showing real estate in a poor light, but merely trying to put it in context and see that other investments could also have yielded similar or better returns.

Paper wealth vs. tangible wealth
“You are probably right,” he said, “but I feel comfortable having a tangible real estate holding than a paper portfolio of stocks or funds.” This thinking is prevalent. And it is not so much about equity versus real estate - such people would be as wary of investing in a real estate trust as they would be in equity - as much as it is about ‘paper’ wealth versus tangible assets.

The reasons are not hard to seek. Many of us have grown up at a time when equity markets were either non-existent, or were plagued by scams in the initial period of their development (circa 1992). On the other hand, ownership of a house has been considered a necessity almost since time immemorial, and there is nothing more comforting than having a roof over your head. Of course, this thinking got extended to investment assets as well - to houses that were not bought for self-use, but for appreciation.

However, I dare say the equation has reversed in India in the recent past. Over the last 10 years or so, market regulator Securities and Exchange Board of India (Sebi) has been remarkably successful in streamlining processes and plugging loopholes in the system.

Scams occur, but are few and far between, with Sebi handing down exemplary punishments to law-breakers. Investor education material on equities and funds is available in plenty, and the system has become efficient enough to bring transaction costs down by orders of magnitude.

If anything, it is the real estate sector that continues to languish in terms of corruption and lack of efficiency. Land deeds in several places are far from clear. The quality of construction in a lot of apartments leaves a lot to be desired. Transaction costs in terms of stamp duties, taxes, registration charges and broker charges add up to a sizeable fraction of the property value over time.

Yes, there are good builders and good properties, but these require extensive research to locate and transact. If one puts in as much research into equities and funds, they too would yield comparable or better returns over time.

Implications for portfolio
It was time for my neighbour to leave, and he admitted that this discussion was as absorbing as the movie. “Circumstances have changed significantly, and the paranoia about ‘paper’ wealth is probably unfounded,” he admitted, adding, he would henceforth use his acumen to research and invest his future surplus in shares and funds, now that he had sufficient real estate holdings.

This, in my opinion, is the crux of the argument. Many of us sub-consciously think of ‘safety’ in tangible assets, and in the process end up concentrating almost the entire net worth in property.

A more rational analysis would reveal the drawbacks of this approach and suggest a more diversified portfolio. It would tell us that in a growing economy like India, equities have surpassed, and will continue to at least match, real estate in performance and returns over the medium to long term. Something you, too, could munch over leisurely the next holiday afternoon.

The author is a certified financial planner and a MBA from IIM, Ahmedabad. He is director, PARK Financial Advisors (www.parkfinadvisors.com), Mumbai. (
[email protected])
 
 
Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards
IP IP Logged
CHINKI
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/Feb/2007
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2827
Quote CHINKI Replybullet Posted: 07/Oct/2007 at 9:30pm
Kulmanji, very good article. I think you have a habit of coming across very good articles which happens to someone who has habit of extensive reading.

No doubt you are one among them and best part of the whole thing is you share them here, helping all of us to get benefit of the same.

All the investments in any sector looks good only and if only that sector is growing.

I have some observations to make regarding real estate:

- Unlike flats/houses, sites/lands appreciate faster. But it is easier to sell flats than sites

- If the investments in flats/sites are made from investment angle, then it should be sold off after it has appreciated to some extent. Like we say in stocks, once a stock gets PE re-rated, thereafter the growth would be only through EPS. Similarly in real estate, after some time, the growth (appreciation) will taper off.

- Like other sectors, in real estate also you can make good money in short period of time. For example, our investments in last two years, has fetched good returns :

* 5 Lacs investment yielded 3 Lacs within 3 months
* 25 Lacs will yield 20 Lacs in 20 months. This is inspite of real estate market cooled off due to increase in rate of interest for home loans

- Unlike in stocks, people may some price for a flat/site, but there may not be a buyer at that price. While a stock can be sold immediately at the prevalent price immediately with the amount getting credited to your within two days, it is not the same with flats/sites

* Needless to say that the dealings have to be done through reliable people/broker

Finally investments in any field/sector can be done only with lot of research.
TOUGH TIMES NEVER LAST, BUT TOUGH PEOPLE DO
IP IP Logged
xbox
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/Sep/2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2001
Quote xbox Replybullet Posted: 07/Oct/2007 at 5:43am
This reminds me one ex-manager, who use to circulate sweets every 8-9 months in the company. One day I asked him why he circulate so  (as he was in mid 40s & no reason to believe any ?? celebration). He told that every time he purchases any flat/house, he circulate sweets. On some buttering, he told that he put some initial amount (varies from project to project) and take house lone for rest of purchasing amount, latter he rent it to some corporate (he seems to have good connextions) such that rent is almost equal to EMI and in 5-6 years house will be his own. Till that time he had 4 such house/flats.
Disclaimer: Location Faridabad and time 2002 or so.
Any member from Faridabad, pls suggest how much  property rates have been appreciated in faridabad, since 2002 ?
IP IP Logged
valueman
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 29/May/2007
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1134
Quote valueman Replybullet Posted: 04/Dec/2007 at 12:03pm
Don’t link your lifestyle to stock market
2007-11-27 14:27:06 Source : moneycontrol

http://www.moneycontrol.com/india/news/mf-experts/don-t-link-your-lifestyle-to-stock-market/12/15/314796
   

One of the dictionary meanings of the word notion is “A mental image.” When the stock market is rising, our notional wealth increases. Everyday we look at stock prices and calculate our wealth. Soon we start believing that growth of our wealth is real and long term. If the stock market rally continues for long – like it has happened this time - we start feeling that our wealth will continuously keep rising.

This false state of suddenly feeling wealthy leads to change in lifestyle.

In recent past, it has been observed that many neo-wealthy investors have suddenly increased their lifestyle expenses. Individuals who use to move in Maruti Alto have purchases Honda City. Families that hardly went out of town have gone to Singapore and Malaysia for vacation. All these expenses are not because they have had phenomenal growth in their own occupation. Most of these spending happen because there is increase in notional wealth.

In year 2001 2002, reverse behavior was observed. This was the time when stock markets were in doldrums. Investors had lost heavily in tech bubble bust. General mood was so down that spending during festive season was also restricted. Those were the years when an investor would not look (READ: Calculating) at his wealth at all. S/he could not withstand daily fall in his/her wealth notionally.

Sudden increases in lifestyle expenses and/or stopping of spending even during festive season are examples of extremes. Both the situations arise because we react based on growth or fall in our notional wealth.

One of the perils of increasing your lifestyle during stock market boom is that we get used to comforts and luxuries in life. When economic situation turns bad we will then struggle to curtail our expenses.

In fact in reality while markets are rising, we should control our expenses and let our wealth grow. By spending money unnecessarily we are making the ability of our wealth to grow impotent. On the other hand when equity markets are down, our wealth is not growing in real terms. Also goods and services are generally cheaper as general spending by consumer is less. Hence, it is prudent to spend money during these times.

We all know stock markets are volatile. Both rise and fall in short run are not permanent. Usually in long run – more than 7 to 9 years – equity markets are likely to give returns that are way higher than inflation. However modifying lifestyle based on few months of stock market rally is highly injurious to financial and family life.

By all means upgrade your lifestyle if you desire, but do not link life and lifestyle of your loved to indices.


IP IP Logged
basant
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 01/Jan/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 18403
Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 04/Dec/2007 at 12:40pm
In fact in reality while markets are rising, we should control our expenses and let our wealth grow. By spending money unnecessarily we are making the ability of our wealth to grow impotent. On the other hand when equity markets are down, our wealth is not growing in real terms. Also goods and services are generally cheaper as general spending by consumer is less. Hence, it is prudent to spend money during these times
 
Should not one do the reverse. Buy stocks when markets are down and spend when markets are on ahigh. I follow that strategy.
 
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
IP IP Logged
kulman
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/Sep/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9319
Quote kulman Replybullet Posted: 04/Dec/2007 at 12:49pm
....modifying lifestyle based on few months of stock market rally is highly injurious to financial and family life.
 
-----------------------------------------------------
 
Very true & important!
 
 
Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards
IP IP Logged
basant
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 01/Jan/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 18403
Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 06/Dec/2007 at 4:43pm
Having been with TED for almost a year now, I am feeling more convinced and confident in the stock market.
 
Always nice to hear that.Dish Tv did give you a tough time though but Alls well that ends well.
 
With rate of interest is expected to go down in future for the next three years, real estate market will move up only.

Imagine, just one bank (YES BANK) want to scale upto 250 branches from the present 100+. by 2010. What about the other banks as well as other sectors. Things will move up very fast in real estate market in the next three to five years.
 
 
India is in a sweet spot right now but over a period of 200 years stocks have outpeformed real estate. See the logic works like this. Suppose real estate prices keep going up so the rent would also go up. At the end of the day the business has to be viable for the rent. It is like the Ricardian theory of rent (if someone has read economics in college). The Property price/Rent is not high on their own but robust businesses are making the property price/rent high by paying more because they can afford to.
 
So to think that property prices would keep going up without a robust business (stocks) could be a debatable point and a business should earn greater return to pay for those properties.
 
When we hear of a deal for Rs 30 crores in a city it is an indication that people are getting wealthy and hence willing to pay higher for a piece of land/house.
 
Also the first home is never an asset that is what i indicated. It is an asset with a lifetime lock in period the asset categorization starts from the second home.
 
But if played well leveraged properties are the biggest multibaggers.A 10% down payment in a property with a 50% appreaciation is a 5 bagger in no time.
 
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
IP IP Logged
omshivaya
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/Sep/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5966
Quote omshivaya Replybullet Posted: 06/Dec/2007 at 4:44pm
Chinki jee, any good bargains that you know of for someone who wants to afford a home(3-4 bedroom) in a decent and civilized locality. I dont mean usual prices...I mean can you help get some good bargains? It is not for investment, but for living purposes of a respectable family.
 
'Coz many people may want to buy some home/flat in next 4-5 years' timeTongue
The most important quality for an investor is temperament,not intellect.A temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd nor against it
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 14 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



This page was generated in 0.016 seconds.
Bookmark this Page