Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin

Annual reports - Reading, Understanding and Discussing.
 The Equity Desk Forum :Investment Ideas - Creating winning portfolios! :Annual reports - Reading, Understanding and Discussing.
Message Icon Topic: Annual Reports.- What to look for in? Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 16 Next >>
Author Message
kumardiwesh
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 26/May/2008
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 721
Quote kumardiwesh Replybullet Posted: 23/Jan/2009 at 1:36am
Fooling the shareholders

Having produced more than 500 annual reports of companies in my capacity as Chief Positioning Officer (and promoter) of Trisys, India’s oldest and largest-dedicated annual reports agency, I can state unambiguously that not more than 10 of those reports were created with the express purpose of servicing the shareholder. Standard client refrain was: “Saab, annual report padhta kaun hai?” Consider my experience:

The skim-the-info report: An Ahmedabad-based pharmaceuticals giant started with the brief: “Let us produce a landmark document.” Midway, the executive assigned slashed non-privileged text. Reason: “Why should I give all this information to my competitors on a platter?”

The upar-upar ka report: Some commodities firm (in businesses strongly regulated by the government) will never go into detail. “Zyaada bolenge to phir government mein problem hoga. They will say you are profitable, so why do you need incentives? Please write everything cosmetically,” is their brief. When the shareholder reads the report, he disinvests immediately.

The have-a-change-of-mind report: We were commissioned to create a landmark information-rich report for a commodities company, but gradually the censor prevailed. We realised why: the management wanted to buy into its own stock at low prices and any positive message would have made the exercise expensive.

The information-by-weight report: On a number of occasions, we have been told, “Utna hi likhiye jitna mere Rs 7 a copy ki cost mein fit ho sakey.” So, information is rationed, pages trimmed and printing cost strictly controlled. “Zyaada likhenge to mailing cost bhi toh badhega!”

The banker-and lender-centric report: An exhaustive report is created to enhance lender confidence and mobilise low-cost loans, the differential offsetting the cost of producing the report. The shareholder never gets this copy.

The ‘what’ report? One company did not mail the copies to shareholders at all; a deluxe version was privately circulated among FIIs, instead. Another insisted on a print run that was a quarter of the number of shareholders. Reason: “We can always say that it was misplaced in transit.”

The achhi-achhi report: Some reports are assiduously sanitised. Like a Yash Raj film, everything looks perfect. Until you discover that the company had provided an economic valueadded (EVA) section in the previous year, which has gone missing this year. The defence: “Aisa hai ji ki last year, EVA was in plus, whereas this year it is in minus.” Their philosophy: when you have bad news, duck.

The suitable hybrid report: Years ago, NIIT produced a report that controlled cost and yet enhanced transparency. It simply provided a synopsis of various sections with relevant URLs should the shareholder be interested in downloading more information. You could fault them on the ground that not all shareholders would be Net-friendly but not on their “neeyat”. However, the company discontinued this practice after this.

http://businesstoday.digitaltoday.in/index.php?option=com_content&Itemid=1&task=view&id=9746§ionid=27&issueid=48&latn=2
"History does not tell you the probability of future financial things happening" - Warren Buffett
IP IP Logged
kulman
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/Sep/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9319
Quote kulman Replybullet Posted: 23/Jan/2009 at 8:44am
Originally posted by kumardiwesh

Fooling the shareholders


Good confessions.

Te same author had written very interesting articles here & here.

Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards
IP IP Logged
Subhankar
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 03/Sep/2008
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 56
Quote Subhankar Replybullet Posted: 23/Jan/2009 at 10:56am
Hi Kumar

Now that you've revealed the dark secrets of Trisys (I presume Mudar didn't throw a fit!) can you enlighten fellow boarders about the extent to which cash flow statements are 'doctored', and if so, how?
IP IP Logged
kumardiwesh
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 26/May/2008
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 721
Quote kumardiwesh Replybullet Posted: 24/Jan/2009 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by Subhankar

Hi KumarNow that you've revealed the dark secrets of Trisys (I presume Mudar didn't throw a fit!) can you enlighten fellow boarders about the extent to which cash flow statements are 'doctored', and if so, how?


This question should be directed at more knowledgeable members.
However, one way to check whether earnings are genuine or not is to look at the amount of taxes paid by the company.
Another indicator is dividends.
Any company that is paying taxes to the tune of at least 10-15% of its declared PBT, not just incurring deferred tax liability, is probably earning genuine profits and cash flows, otherwise it would not pay the government in a hurry.
If promoter holding is below a threshold, say 60-70% and handsome dividends are distributed, it means a substantial portion of earnings is given to outsiders.
"History does not tell you the probability of future financial things happening" - Warren Buffett
IP IP Logged
Subhankar
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 03/Sep/2008
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 56
Quote Subhankar Replybullet Posted: 24/Jan/2009 at 3:08pm
Thanks for your response, Kumar. Sorry if I phrased my question incorrectly.

What I wanted to know was whether Trisys clients have ever asked you to 'fool shareholders' by fudging the cash flow statement.

Lot of companies pay taxes and dividends, but do not have positive operating cash flows. So where does the money come from? Borrowings and share issues usually. Also by not paying suppliers. Some times by booking profits in the share market. All these are mentioned in a typical cash flow statement in an Annual Report.

But can, and do, companies 'cook' the cash flows? If so, how?
IP IP Logged
kumardiwesh
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 26/May/2008
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 721
Quote kumardiwesh Replybullet Posted: 24/Jan/2009 at 3:19pm
Trisys is run by Mudar Patherya.
I've nothing to do with Trisys.
I just read the article and posted a link to it.
Operating Cash Flow, OCF = EBIT + Depreciation - Taxes.
Cook any of these and cash flow is cooked.
"History does not tell you the probability of future financial things happening" - Warren Buffett
IP IP Logged
basant
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 01/Jan/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 18403
Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 24/Jan/2009 at 7:51pm
Originally posted by kumardiwesh


Cook any of these and cash flow is cooked.
 
Important for those who believe that cash flow never lies.Big%20smile
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
IP IP Logged
Vivek Sukhani
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 23/Jul/2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6675
Quote Vivek Sukhani Replybullet Posted: 24/Jan/2009 at 10:00am
Originally posted by Subhankar

Thanks for your response, Kumar. Sorry if I phrased my question incorrectly.

What I wanted to know was whether Trisys clients have ever asked you to 'fool shareholders' by fudging the cash flow statement.

Lot of companies pay taxes and dividends, but do not have positive operating cash flows. So where does the money come from? Borrowings and share issues usually. Also by not paying suppliers. Some times by booking profits in the share market. All these are mentioned in a typical cash flow statement in an Annual Report.

But can, and do, companies 'cook' the cash flows? If so, how?
 
If veracity of figures is what you are trying to set your gun on, then the first thing to look for is how much is ownership distict from the mangement. Companies managed by promoters, are more likely to indulge in misreporting and misrepresenting.  Thats why, during the period of crisis of confidence, investors flock to MNCs and PSUs. In case of MNCs, promoters are mostly powerful, as they hold in most of the cases, more than 50 p.c of the paid up equity. They keep their nominated members on board to look at the day-to-day affairs and are najorly interested in pulling out as much as dividend as possible. PSUs are also similar. The promoter in this case, makes the mangement sign the MoU and that document set for you all the operational and financial targets. Last year, i remember very correctly, after the Board has decided to declare 3 coins a ticket as dividend for Allahabad Bank, the government jumped in the fray and made it to declare 3.5 coins as dividend per share. If I remember correctly, they did the same thing with vijaya Bank as well.  
 
Now coming to figures, generally high payout companies tend to show reasonably correct figures. I agree with Kumar diwesh, that companies paying high corporate taxes and high dividend generally are more reliable.
Also his observation on 'cooking' is spot on. Of all the three things there, depreciation is least likely to be fudged.
Jai Guru!!!
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 16 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.
Bookmark this Page

Join Theequitydesk.com Today!

It’s easy to Join and it’s free.

Here's why members would love to be a part of theequitydesk.com

  • Equity Desk focuses on why to buy shares and invest in share rather than what to buy.
  • Live discussion forum wherein members can discuss the current Indian share Market trend, BSE Sensex or the Nifty Index.
  • Have huge cache of information on Indian and World Share Market.
  • Analysis of Indian stock market, Global events, Investing insights, portfolio management strategies and thoughts,
  • Meet investors from round the globe check their investing strategies share experiences and learn for their experiences on stocks and shares, evaluate opinions on investing in India.

Register now while it’s free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us           Close