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Trading Psychology
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Message Icon Topic: Technicals or Fundamentals.. What works? Post Reply Post New Topic
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Vivek Sukhani
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Quote Vivek Sukhani Replybullet Posted: 18/Apr/2007 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by BubbleVision

A couple of years back I used to spend hours looking at meta stock
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Metastock paisa nahin banata hain!!!
There are many others in india who dont know any other software other than metastock.
 
Human eyes and mind makes money...TA or FA.
 
Main thing with TA is that prople are not ready to see even a 1 day decline if they have made a decision based on TA. They dont have patience. The main thing with FA is that people are sometimes left holding the bag forever.
 
I know some who believed in "Peak Oil Theory" and was left holding crude which he entered at $77.00. He is still holding and  $77.00 may again come, but by that time...he would have paid a significant amount as "Cost of Carry". This is invisiable loss!!! 
 
To successfully make money...the one person who can help is thy self.
 
 
 
Bubble, a confusion here....if one gets long in scrips hitting 52 week-highs are we not assuming that the end is infinite.... ultimately all stocks come down and come down us relatively a milder way of saying what actually happens. This where a fundamental analyst scores the point.... thwy may not be able to catch the top but they manage to get out at least. I remeber analysts recommending sugar stocks as they were making new highs day after day.....they applied the same logic for construction stocks, infra stocks. I beleive by adopting this principle, one shows his belief that the good things last forever, but actually they dont. I understand its price which makes perception and not the other way round, but then actually thats the time when the old investors make the biggest money. And also, when price makes perception then its actually the time to make an exit. Also, one more reason why technical analysis must not be used by investors, except sporadically for refining entry points or looking at historical data, is that technical analysis doesnt help in locating multibaggers... the maximum they think of 161.8% projection of a given range....thats it. Bubble tell me, looking at the sensex chart of 2002-2003 would a technical analysis have thought of sensex @ current levels.


Edited by basant - 18/Apr/2007 at 5:12pm
Jai Guru!!!
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Vivek Sukhani
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Quote Vivek Sukhani Replybullet Posted: 18/Apr/2007 at 4:56pm

I liked your take on peak oil theory but bubble I know of many technical analysts who at that time recommended 85 with a stop at 72.So, both TAUs as well as FAUs get wrong.....but what about uranium.... which TA could have seen from 7 to 113.....????????

Perhaps its for this reason that only technical analysts know of great technical analysts but as far as fundamnetal analysts goes, all and sindry be it a TA or a FA or a mungeri, they all know them.
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Vivek Sukhani
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Quote Vivek Sukhani Replybullet Posted: 18/Apr/2007 at 4:58pm
Bubble, I am just debating over a point... kindly dont take it otherwise. I for one, also never trade a long without looking at the charts, but dont refer to them for exits. Apologise beforehand!!!!

Edited by Vivek Sukhani - 18/Apr/2007 at 4:59pm
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Quote xbox Replybullet Posted: 18/Apr/2007 at 6:04am

None of these works. Only thing which works is liquidity. Sometimes liquidity follows technicals and sometimes fundamentals. There is no clear trend so far and to make the matter worst, nobody can predict liquidity flow. All yen/dollar currency gazing it to see liquidity flow.

<<Lighter note>> forgive me for this msg.
Don't bet on pig after all bull & bear in circle.
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BubbleVision
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Quote BubbleVision Replybullet Posted: 18/Apr/2007 at 7:02am
Vivek....There are "NO HOLY GRAILS" in the market and each and every strategy FA or TA have their share of Faults. We can only improve the probability of our money making.
 
As far as Sugar stocks and 52 Week Highs are concerned....They started hitting 52 week highs from 2003. Balrampur started in Aug-2003. So anyone who purchased Balrampur at a new 52 week high with a 10% stop has made a bucket full of money between 2003 and 2006, without having to hold the "Baggage" now. Also post May-2006, the only guys who were bearish on Sugar were the TA. One can recall Atul Suri Interview on CNBC, when he was clearly bearish on sugar. I am NOT reffering to any other TA. The Noted FA is still Bullish on this sector, and now he may be right, after every investor has sold these stocks out. The chances of being stubborn are much higher using FA. The KEY to using a 52 week High strategy would be buy everytime the stock moves up to high, with a stop, which requires DISCIPLINE.
 
Same logic to Construction stocks also, as they also started to hit 52 week highs much before they finally topped. Rembember, the important point is when a sector first starts to hit new high, and not the last day of a new high.
 
Vivek...I for one have never ever calculated 161.80% as any target, I try to "Follow" the market and NOT try to outsmart it.
 
Vivek...If you recall, This Bull Market (since 2003) started Post Infosys Crash 40% in a day on 10-Apr-03. And the most bearish guys were Fundamental Analysts. I also recall, there was a disbelief form the FA community (from what I heard in Media) when the market started to move up post Infy Crash. I recall that Monsoons were below normal in 2003 and that was the primary worry of the FA section. I clearly recall couple of leading brokerages come out with a SELL recomm on M&M @ 100, on Monsoon concerns.
BasantJi, may recall and post here on what was the behaviour of the FA then.
 
A TA would not have predicted 14000, and Neither would have a FA predicted it, other than RJ (who is in a different league alltogether and he uses charts also).
 
 
I would also use one more example....There are scores of FA in US who called housing a "Bubble", since 2002, and most of them lost their shirt shorting housing stocks because the market actually topped in 2005, by when most were convinced that "Housing Bubble" would never ever burst as the US has Plunge Protection Team (PPT), who would stabilise the markets.
 
It is the market which makes us Fools or Smart., but nothing competes with DISCIPLINE!!! 
 
Uranium has been replied in Metals section.
 
There are "NO HOLY GRAILS".
 
Vipul...Nice one!!!
 
 
 
You can't make money if you are unwilling to lose...It's like willing to breathe in but not willing to breathe out. -- ED SEYKOTA ....Read Disclaimer!
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Vivek Sukhani
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Quote Vivek Sukhani Replybullet Posted: 18/Apr/2007 at 10:45am
Right, Manish... you have drove home the point....Manish, any molybdenum play you looking at. Also, if Autos go through a slowdown majorly, which may appear far-feched at the moment but still probable, dont you think molyb will also suffer.... arent they used in catalytic converters????
 
Bubble, I have never made a case against anyone. Just that my langyage gets extremely rude at times. Its not a comment upon individual analysts as such.....however, trust you me, very very few TA manage to get something like a Uranium on their radar. They may enter @ 50 and see 113 but from 7 to 113, is not their(most of them) cup of tea rather its not even the handle of the cup of their tea. They look @ RSI and comment its over-bought, they look at stochastics and comment that the fater line has intersected the slower line from beneath and is now getting a bit too streched, etc etc. For me, appart from Fibs, trendlines and at times GANN, nothing makes any sense @ all.
 
 
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 18/Apr/2007 at 10:56am
They look @ RSI and comment its over-bought, they look at stochastics
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Infosys was over bought for about 24 months during the 2000 tech boom!!! I am not sure  if anyone could have held such a hot cup of teaWink
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
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BubbleVision
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Quote BubbleVision Replybullet Posted: 18/Apr/2007 at 11:27am
Vivek...I for one dont look at RSI, Gann and other stuff, as I have already told here before. I cannot comment on others on what they look at. I look at Prices (Monthly, then weekly and then daily), MA's, Trendlines and ROC.  
 
BasantJi...Yes, acording to many FA, Infy was a "Buy On Dips" during its compelete fall from Rs 10000/- to a low of 2500 Odd, when the management indicated "a commoditisation of IT cycle", which resulted in a PE derating. At 2500, Infy was expensive to many FA.
 
Anyone ...How would one Fundamentally "Value" a currency or a commodity.
 
Commodity's depend on Demand-Supply, and looking at the  "TREND" OF LME Stocks.


Edited by BubbleVision - 18/Apr/2007 at 11:32am
You can't make money if you are unwilling to lose...It's like willing to breathe in but not willing to breathe out. -- ED SEYKOTA ....Read Disclaimer!
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