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investor
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Quote investor Replybullet Posted: 15/Jan/2009 at 8:42am
Nice one! Clap
Originally posted by arunshah2k



Satyam wanted to buy Maytas, as they wanted to become another L&T. LOL
L&T bought stake, as they wanted to become another Satyam. Angry



The market is a place where people with money meet people with experience.
The people with experience get the money while people with money get experience!
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kumardiwesh
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Quote kumardiwesh Replybullet Posted: 16/Jan/2009 at 2:50pm
HDFC Bank: A job well done

Loan losses have risen slightly requiring more provisions but the bank’s profits stay strong.

A 30 basis points sequential rise in the gross non-performing loans (npls) to 0.6 per cent, marred an otherwise reasonably good performance from HDFC Bank for the December 2008 quarter.The stock lost about a per cent in value because the Street is not accustomed to seeing a deterioration in the bank’s delinquencies. More than half the rise is attributable to the loan portfolio of Centurion Bank of Punjab, which was merged with HDFC Bank in 2008, but it’s evident that the worsening economic environment is starting to hurt retail and SME assets.

HDFC Bank has promptly upped provisions by 53 per cent sequentially, pushing up the the loan loss coverage by a good 240 basis points to just under 68 per cent, a very safe level.

In fact, even in a difficult quarter, when the cost of money soared, the bank was able to post a rise in the net interest margin of 10 basis points to 4.3 per cent. With customers preferring to park their money in fixed deposit, the bank’s complement of cheaper current and savings accounts (CASA) fell a sharp 400 basis to 40 per cent pushing up the weighted average cost of funds by close to 100 basis points. However, the yields on the loans were high enough to offset the higher cost of funds and as a result the net interest income rose 38 per cent.

Besides, the bank earned a fairly large amount from fees and commissions — up 40 per cent y-o-y — and also benefited from the higher profit on revaluation and sale of investments which is how it was able to post a 37 per cent increase in the pre-provisioning profit to Rs 1,458 crore. The best part about the bank’s business model is that the fee income has little correlation — just 10 per cent — with the loan book; that means even if loan growth tapers off, the fee income should stay robust.

If the bank manages to grow the loan book at a rate slightly higher than that of the system in 2009-10 — estimated at 18-19 per cent — it should be fine. At Rs 977, the stock trades at around 2.7 times estimated 2008-09 book value and remains, without doubt, the best play in the sector.
"History does not tell you the probability of future financial things happening" - Warren Buffett
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Quote vijayM Replybullet Posted: 18/Jan/2009 at 5:14pm
Basant ji
 
 I know you are bullish about HDFC Bank. Presently I hold about 12% of my portfolio in this stock & I wish to increase the holding. Before I do that, I want to be sure about the key risks involved with this company. Please explain the risks in HDFC Bank.
 
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vijayM
If a business does well, the stock eventually follows:Warren Buffett
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 18/Jan/2009 at 5:24pm

The risk for any Bank is the same - NPA!

'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
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Quote Shikari_Shambu Replybullet Posted: 18/Jan/2009 at 9:47pm
The fact with HDFC Bank is, no matter how good the performance is, it is usually already discounted. I mean how come when HDFC Bank posted such wonderful results in such a difficult environment, the market brings it down?

The problem with stocks like HDFC Bank is that markets expect excellent results ( I am heavily invested in this stock in my wife's portfolio). Even very good performance disappoints market.

Now, 40% profit growth (just an example) in any other Bank would propel the stock up but not HDFC Bank because it is already discounted. On the other hand, imagine if HDFC Bank reports a good ( but below market expectation) result. The stock would tank.

I am thinking of moving from HDFC Bank ( in my wife's portfolio) to another stock where the expectations are not so great.

It is not about whether the performance is good or bad. It it as about  whether it is above or below market expecations


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Quote Shikari_Shambu Replybullet Posted: 18/Jan/2009 at 10:21pm
To be clear in what I was trying to say :-

It is better to be in a stock where the market already expects the worst, where even a slightly good performance is rewarded than a stock where market expects the best, where a very good performance is given a thumbs down.

Of course, the caveat is that the companies need to be solvent and live to fight another day
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Hitesh Shah
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Quote Hitesh Shah Replybullet Posted: 18/Jan/2009 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by Shikari_Shambu

The fact with HDFC Bank is, no matter how good the performance is, it is usually already discounted. I mean how come when HDFC Bank posted such wonderful results in such a difficult environment, the market brings it down?

The problem with stocks like HDFC Bank is that markets expect excellent results ( I am heavily invested in this stock in my wife's portfolio). Even very good performance disappoints market.

Now, 40% profit growth (just an example) in any other Bank would propel the stock up but not HDFC Bank because it is already discounted. On the other hand, imagine if HDFC Bank reports a good ( but below market expectation) result. The stock would tank.

I am thinking of moving from HDFC Bank ( in my wife's portfolio) to another stock where the expectations are not so great.

It is not about whether the performance is good or bad. It it as about  whether it is above or below market expecations


This time there is the Satyam overhang and the overall gloom. The way good news is handled by a bear market is different.
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Shikari_Shambu
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Quote Shikari_Shambu Replybullet Posted: 18/Jan/2009 at 11:16pm
Hitesh jee,

Agree with the Satyam overhang but bull or bear, its not about good or bad but about above or below market expectations ( which are already built into the price).

For a stock like HDFC Bank, my first year of investment is a waste since it will take 1 year to make my purchase price a reasonable price to enter ( and that too IF the company performs as per expectations). There is too much risk in this.

Let me take an example. Since I am invested in Axis and Yes, I will take example of Kotak Bank

Kotak PE = 11.91 and P/BV = 1.87
HDFC Bank PE = ~20 and P/BV = 3.53 ( if we take into account the conversion of warrants it is ~ 2.2. I might be off by about a little but broadly these are the numbers)

Now, if we assume that the PE is some indicator of market expectations over the next 2-3 years, then

1) If Kotak grows at 20 %, it will be more rewarded than HDFC Bank if it grows at 30%

(caveat : Kotak and HDFC Bank are solvent after 2-3 years)

In comparison of risk-reward, it is significantly lower in Kotak than HDFC Bank because the risk is priced in more in Kotak than HDFC Bank. Purchase price, to a large extent, determines risk IMO.
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