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Message Icon Topic: Diversified vs Concentrated Portfolios.. Post Reply Post New Topic
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basant
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 19/Sep/2006 at 11:16pm
 I think as an amateir u should have a diversified portfolio. Thereafter you can prune. tell me, how can i , a 27 year old, have a concentrated portfolio
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Vivek it is something like the chicken and the egg race. Concentration comes from conviction which what ever anyone says comes only after you have made your first 5 bagger. Absolutely new commers should have at least 8 -10 stocks because to have a concentrated portfolio you need to understand the companies first. A few musts for having a concentrated portfolio:
 
1) Always buy the sector leaders. They will rarely be extinguished.
 
2) Never buy on if that happens this will happen. For instance people can buy companies making set top boxes tghinking that if CAS happens they will gain.
 
3) Always have equal distribution. FOr instanmce if I have a portfolio of 4 stocks:
 
Portfolio 1-
Stock A 55%
Stock B 20%
Stock C 13%
Stock D 12%
 
Portfolio 2
Stock A 30%
Stock B 25%
Stock C 23%
Stock D 22%
 
And assume you go wrong in the most weighted stock of both the portfolios Stock A:
 
In Portfolio 1 you would need to get 3 ideas correct to rectify this mistake
 
In Portfolio 2 you would require any one idea correct to rectify this mistake.
 
So having concentrated portfolios does not mean owing just 4 stocks but there has to be diversification amongst all these four  - Diversification in concentration is what I call this.
 


Edited by basant - 19/Sep/2006 at 11:18pm
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Ajith
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Quote Ajith Replybullet Posted: 19/Sep/2006 at 12:14pm

Yes,Vivek my portfolio can get concentrated over time but I would love it if moderate holdings really outperform.Just think Credit Capital Venture I bought(and am holding still) at 8 Rupees (There was some reduction in capital)and ignored by me  as unimportant for past 9 years is now I L & F S investment managers quoting at around 140(yesterday)Xb 1:2.There have been scores of  shares like that for other investors  also in the past and there are hundreds like that today and I hope to do a repeat and ignore and let the moderate holdings blossom... but it can turn ot as you say that is a possiblity I cannot rule out ...If I had the luxury of making company visits and interacting with managements  and having an organizational backup I would love to have a few hundred shares in my portfolio but my limitations puts the brakes since I would  otherwise lose all  control .I have heard of someone  having 240 stocks..no point at all in having so many.



Edited by Ajith - 19/Sep/2006 at 12:40pm
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Quote manishdave Replybullet Posted: 19/Sep/2006 at 6:35am
Vivek,
Enterprise value is value of Business only. Not counting cash/debt.
 
EV = Mkt Cap + Debt - Cash
 
 
On diversification:
IMO don't diversify for sake of it or don't concentrate for sake of it. If I find idea with exceptional potential with low risk I load up to significant % of portfolio. Now % also depends on other opportunity.
 
Then suppose something goes up significantly and I think it is price to sell I have money but no great investment idea. I park money and naturally gets more diversified with low risk, good yield stocks - sell HAATHI and buy BAKARIYAN. Once I have something significant or mkt crashed and a particular stock goes down more than others I sell diversification and start concentrating.
 
 
 
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Quote Ajith Replybullet Posted: 19/Sep/2006 at 9:12am
Traders will do well to have a concentrated portfolio as explained in that wonderful book The Zurich Axioms.Investors have to be aware of their limitations in the longer term perspective and plan accordingly.
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Vivek Sukhani
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Quote Vivek Sukhani Replybullet Posted: 19/Sep/2006 at 10:33am
Well, one of the advantages I have seen with a diversied portfolio uis that you never become obssessed. Of course, you will have fancies, but to a certian extent. You will be able to see the universe if you are not merely holding but observing your companies.Gentlemen, you need to study the companies and in order to do that you must have their Annual Report and in order to do that you need to own them. Dont know , but to me diversification is an inevitable curse if you want to be a student in this market. I simply cannot get a hang of the culture of the company without looking at the co.'s annual report. Before we have our repertoire ready we need to test the strength of our weapons... and that testing calls for diversification.So, Basant, I agree with Manish, haathi baicho  bakri kharido, and if you adopt this startegy you will become diversified automatically.Also, diversification or concentration is also consequent upon market conditions.At the time of the start of a rally, you can have a concentrated portfolio but at the end of it, you have got to have a wise sectoral base in your portfolio.
 
Basant, request you to kindly share your views on that.
 
Regards,
 
Vivek
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Quote Ajith Replybullet Posted: 20/Sep/2006 at 5:50pm

Good point ,Vivek.

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Quote deepinsight Replybullet Posted: 21/Sep/2006 at 1:39am
The execution of a concentrated portfolio requires
1. high level of conviction
2. a great level of understanding of the underlying business
3. a mental make up ownership versus trading
4. Some experience of making and losing money
 
the way I have built on it is by thinking in terms of old friends and new friends.
 
I start by putting a set amount in a new company (which I have anlyzed and am very positive about) and then study it further, giving it couple of quarters, over time if it turns out to be a good friend I add to it and make it part of the old friends circle.
 
The overall objective is to have a 80% portfolio of only old friends and 20% portfolio of new friends.
 
"Investing is simple, but not easy." - Warren Buffet
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basant
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 21/Sep/2006 at 9:44am

Very well written"deepinsight".

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