Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin

Equity Valuation Techniques
 The Equity Desk Forum :Market Strategies :Equity Valuation Techniques
Message Icon Topic: Equity analysis Strategies Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 18 Next >>
Author Message
kumardiwesh
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 26/May/2008
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 721
Quote kumardiwesh Replybullet Posted: 22/Jul/2008 at 3:06pm
Basantji,
 
Can we have a thread to discuss cost of capital?
"History does not tell you the probability of future financial things happening" - Warren Buffett
IP IP Logged
tarkeshwar
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 14/Oct/2007
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 140
Quote tarkeshwar Replybullet Posted: 30/Oct/2008 at 1:37pm
Excuse for cross-posting it here from Dish thread.
This may be helpful to some.

Mathematically,
"Stock prices can go up if and only if:
1. PE expands
2. ROE increases
2a. Net Profit Margin goes up
2b. Turnover (Sales / Assets) increases
2c. Leverage increases (Assets / Equity). Subject to interest rate being less than ROE.
3. Equity is diluted at higher price"

All factors play into these figures somewhere. Sentiment factors in item no. 1.

Note PE is a linear figure while ROE is a compounding one. Overtime, ROE will be the dominant one in affecting stock price.
IP IP Logged
Hitesh Shah
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 12/Oct/2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3656
Quote Hitesh Shah Replybullet Posted: 05/Nov/2008 at 6:59pm
This from HDFC Securities:

Warning! May make uncomfortable reading ....

http://hdfcsec.com/KnowledgeCenter/Story.aspx?ArticleID=1798ce4d-4eee-497d-84ac-fc1fcad34250



02 Apr 2007 | 17:04 The Mechanism Of Price Action.

The common perception of Technical Analysis is that it is a tool for traders. That one gets short-term signals and therefore its usage is restricted to short term trading, possibly, only intra day trading even. How did this perception emerge? And how does this persist to this day? This and a few other questions are what we shall attempt to answer in this write up.

The answer to the first question is a bit round about. Most people attempting trading know that the price moves change directions frequently and that fundamentals of a company cannot change with such frequency. Ergo, the moves of the stock, intra day or over a small time frame have therefore to be necessarily "technical" in nature. Since no one has quite bothered to explain cogently why prices do indeed move over the short term or within a day, the image of "technical" movements have persisted.

So what indeed is this "technical" movement of prices? Pause… And think of an answer. You may not really get one. That’s because the prices are, well, just there and happen all the time, don’t they? But what is the price, really? If we think of prices then we immediately think of supply- demand. All of us know that prices are a result of the supply-demand equation. Let us therefore go up one more level and see what produces supply or generates demand for stocks? Well, here again, the answers should be pretty quick. Our inkling of whether stocks are going cheap or expensive at the moment as compared with what they may do in the future.

This leads to the next question, then. How does one get an inkling of whether a stock is available at the right price or not? You would probably answer, depending on the "fundamentals" of the stock. So, what are the fundamentals of the stock? Ready answer, again. Sales, Profits, Products, Management, Earnings, Growth… and then you slow down, think a while, and come up with, Industry, Position within the industry, Competitors, Finished goods, Raw materials, inventory, cash flows… and then you think some more, and say, Economy, International competition (if applicable), political atmosphere, stability of Govt… By now, probably you have run out of items to list. Are you sure this is the full list of items, which affect the fundamentals? Probably, is your answer?

Ok, let’s take that as the list for now and examine it. Do you see a problem here? There are about a dozen factors, each of which comprise or is dependent on a dozen other factors. Many of these are themselves further interdependent. More. Many of these factors require collection of associated data before one can attempt to analyze them. So, in a nutshell, fundamental analysis faces two very important factors. One, collection all relevant material necessary for analysis, and secondly, that is more vital our ability to analyze the collected material.

Who can do a good job of it? Obviously, some large funds who have both the access to information (they can pay for it) and the ability to analyse (they can hire many analysts) and other larger players. What about small guys like you and me? Well, we try to do our best, don’t we? We read some magazines, try to get hold of a balance sheet or two, try our rudimentary knowledge of financials and come up with the best scenario that we can. Is this going to be correct? Who knows? We just hope that it is.

So what we have in the market is a collection of people who have all done some kind of analysis on stocks depending upon their access to material and their ability to analyze the material. All of this analysis leads to a perception of future value and this perception is then compared with the existing price to see whether or not a profit opportunity exists.

When you get into the realm of perceptions, you leave the comfort of rational numbers and enter into another domain, which is dominated by an entirely different set of factors. This is the domain of one’s own mind. Your perception of stock A would change from moment to moment, day to day or month to month... depending upon what your mindset is currently and what are the experiences you are undergoing at the moment. The mind waxes and wanes from moment to moment and therefore perceptions of value too change from time to time. So what was looking extremely attractive last week, suddenly is no longer so this week because you suffered a loss elsewhere. Or your sister is about to get married and you need the money. Or the government is shaky. Or there is a big drop at the Nasdaq. Or the FII selling is relentless. The list can go on and on. Therefore, you, who were on the demand side last week, are suddenly on the supply side this week.

Get the picture? There are so many reevaluations taking place in our own minds and there are so many of us out there in the markets - whether investors or traders or mutual funds or FIIs or hedge funds. All are trying to make valuations, develop perceptions and then, finally express those perceptions through the supply or demand mechanism. Is it any wonder that the prices keep on fluctuating back and forth as these multitudes of valuations keep being expressed? Remember, there is only one turf for all of us to express ourselves – the stock market. So starting from a big daddy FII right down to the ubiquitous Mr. Shah, we are all playing out our hopes and fears and greed and other associated emotions in the market.

And what do we all express it through? Off course the Price. This therefore is the one medium that unites one and all within the market place. Outside the market, we may be small and big, in terms of resources, access and ability. But within the market, our actions are pretty focused and are directed only through movements of price. The price of day is therefore the sum total of all the known news and all the known views up to that day. Think of it this way. If you knew something, which others did not, would you not be in the market, either demanding or supplying the stock? Would this volume not affect the prices? If you were bullish, you would be willing to pay a little premium so that you would not miss out on a good thing, so the prices would rise. If your news were bearish, you would be willing to offer a discount to the current rate so that you can get rid of the stuff fast before the rest of the market comes to know, so the prices would dip. Hence price is that equilibrium point where all known news and views – both bullish as well as bearish – have met and expressed themselves.

Price movements expressed over time are what define the Trend. The logic for the price moves however remains consistent over all time. Hence it is our own misconception that price moves over the long term are "fundamental" in nature while price moves over the short term are "technical" in nature. In reality, they are just price moves, nothing more. It is our own erroneous labeling which get us into all kinds of unnecessary imbroglios about the market. We will examine more such misconceptions later on in this series.


IP IP Logged
Pritesh
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 06/Mar/2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2
Quote Pritesh Replybullet Posted: 06/Mar/2009 at 10:01am
Hello everyone,
 
I am Pritesh from Pune and have just joined the equity desk ..though was following the blogs for quite some time...
 
I am interested in the equity market and have burned my fingers in the market meltdown last year, There were certain points which came to my mind recently which we usually tend to overlook when the times are good.
 
7 Criterias for buying stocks of a particular company:
 
1) Company's area of Business in which they operate - Is it the future?, Is it scaleable?, Is it profitable? and Is it sustainable?
 
2) Lower Debt/Equity Ratio - Preferably below 1?
 
3) Market Cap / Sales Ratio - Preferably below 5?
 
4) Net Profit Margin not less than 10%?
 
5) Price/Equity Ratio - Below 10?
 
6) ROCE and ROE - Both prefereably should be above 15%?
 
7) Promoter have increased their stake during recent meltdown?
 
Thanks,
Pritesh
IP IP Logged
basant
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 01/Jan/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 18403
Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 06/Mar/2009 at 10:51am
Point 7 is debatable some companies where promoters raised stake are IndiaBulls, Guj NRE, PRIL etc anmd teh stocks are down 50%-70% from those levels. Finally it is the fundamentals that count because promoters can also make judgemental errors after all they are entrepreneurs and not equity analysts.
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
IP IP Logged
Pritesh
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 06/Mar/2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2
Quote Pritesh Replybullet Posted: 06/Mar/2009 at 11:10am

I was taking all the points together and not in isolation, i.e. the 6 points can give us a broader view of the fundamentals and Point 7 would help us in analysing the confidence of the promoter in the company.

Some of the stocks with the above parameters would be Praj, ICSA, Rel Capital, HEG

 

IP IP Logged
go4sheel
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 23/Mar/2009
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 105
Quote go4sheel Replybullet Posted: 24/May/2009 at 6:02pm
Hello Basantji,

I have a query regarding revaluation reserves in the Balancesheet of the Company.

What are the revaluation reserves...?

In case of <b>Gulf Oil Corporation</b>

They have their revaluation reserves at Rs.1800 crores in their Balancesheet. What does that mean...?
and the MCap of company is around Rs.377cr.

So can we say that the company is undervalued...?

The reason for that Rs.1800 crores is mentions below...

Gulf Oil is basically Hinduja Group Company. This is a company is a multi business, multi location company. This company is into Lubricants, industrial explosives, mining services, real estate as well as specialty chemicals. The company has got its lubricants plants which are located in Silvassa. This company has its industrial explosive divisions located in Hyderabad, Rourkela and Bhiwandi. The plant which is in Hyderabad is located on 821 acres of land and as far as company sources this is the second largest detonator manufacturing facility in the world. Last year there has been a slow down in the automobile sector because of which the lubricant business of the company has not logged on much growth. The growth is almost flat as far as the lubricant business is concerned. But the company is seeing good growth in the industrial explosive and mining services business. This company is sitting on huge land bank which is located in various parts of the country. This company is setting up a 40 acre IT SEZ in Bangalore and a 100 acre knowledge park in Hyderabad. This company valued these two pieces of land last year which is FY 08 and the valuation came to more than Rs 1800 crore which they provided in the balance sheet also under re-valuation reserves. When these two pieces of land together translate into Rs 1800 crore this company besides these two pieces have got lands in other areas also. The exact value and the amount of land which they have is really not available in public domain, but the actual valuation couldbe much higher than the current valuations.

If one takes a look at the financials of this company, for nine months revenues are up by about 28% to Rs 673 crore. Profit after tax is down by about 90% to Rs 1.73 crore. The decrease of profit after tax is mainly on account of the foreign exchange losses and derivative losses which this company suffered in nine months. Given the market cap of about Rs 373 crore and given the asset base which the company is sitting on under revenue and profit potential of the asset base this could be a multiple bagger in the making. As of now, when people see a 90% decline in profitability not many are willing to touch this stock but I think most of their businesses have got good revenue potential and good profit potential. Moreover their land banks have good potential to get unlocked which means that you do not have too much to lose from these levels. If one sees the price pattern of this stock this stock has been hitting constant upper circuit from Rs 35 onwards.
IP IP Logged
basant
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 01/Jan/2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 18403
Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 24/May/2009 at 10:39pm
WHen companies revalue their assets (mostly land bank) on the asset side they have a corresponding reserve on the liability side. More often this is a correct figure but some dishonest managements can also create such a reserve by artificially jacking up the asset side.
 
This gets covered in the book value so if you are comparing the stock price with the BV then there is no need for this additional analysis.
 
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 18 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.
Bookmark this Page

Join Theequitydesk.com Today!

It’s easy to Join and it’s free.

Here's why members would love to be a part of theequitydesk.com

  • Equity Desk focuses on why to buy shares and invest in share rather than what to buy.
  • Live discussion forum wherein members can discuss the current Indian share Market trend, BSE Sensex or the Nifty Index.
  • Have huge cache of information on Indian and World Share Market.
  • Analysis of Indian stock market, Global events, Investing insights, portfolio management strategies and thoughts,
  • Meet investors from round the globe check their investing strategies share experiences and learn for their experiences on stocks and shares, evaluate opinions on investing in India.

Register now while it’s free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us           Close