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kulman
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Quote kulman Replybullet Topic: Does CFA/CA help in becoming a better investor
    Posted: 20/May/2008 at 10:26am

Originally posted by basant


Does CFA/CA actually help in becoming a better investor or does it just make the mind more analytical and adaptable to the game of numbers. By trying to study so much of risk day in and day out do CFAs actually become risk averse so much so that they cannot get ahead of the Balance sheet?

 

The biggest money is made (Pantaloon, Bharti,Titan etc) not by looking at the balance sheet but by trying to assess the business model/ management? How does one go about in understanding how one business model would perform better then the other.Is Buffett/Charlie the best read on this subject

 

Would it be suffice to say that business comes ahead of the numbers and if so why is so much stress put on numbers. 

 

Having attended a few conf calls I see that most analysts are focused on what the next quarter is going to be maybe to get their spread sheets correct but even after changing estimates till Q3 they get it wrong for the full year. My question is instead of trying to pinpoint as to how much a company is under.over valued why don't we just try and be subjective that a company is very much under valued or extremely over valued. What is the need for putting targets and then revising it every three months?




While the query from BM wasn't addressed to me nor am I qualified to talk on this subject, just wanted to start a new thread by posting Gurus' thoughts..

There’s a lot that isn’t wrong at business schools. They do a lot of things right. But what tends to be wrong at business schools is that not enough emphasis is placed on what is a good business, what is a mediocre business and what is a bad business and why.

 

Interestingly enough, when Buffett studied business under Ben Graham at Columbia, you had a genius with the single best student he ever had. And the one thing they never discussed was the difference between a good business & a bad business. It’s amazing the blindsides great institutions have, including great educational institutions

---Charlie Munger

 

My most surprising discovery: the overwhelming importance in business of an unseen force that we might call "the institutional imperative." In business school, I was given no hint of the imperative's existence and I did not intuitively understand it when I entered the business world. I thought then that decent, intelligent, and experienced managers would automatically make rational business decisions. But I learned over time that isn't so. Instead, rationality frequently wilts when the institutional imperative comes into play. ---Warren Buffett (letter to shareholders '89)






Edited by kulman - 20/May/2008 at 10:27am
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basant
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 20/May/2008 at 10:48am
Originally posted by kulman

Originally posted by basant


Does CFA/CA actually help in becoming a better investor or does it just make the mind more analytical and adaptable to the game of numbers. By trying to study so much of risk day in and day out do CFAs actually become risk averse so much so that they cannot get ahead of the Balance sheet?

 

The biggest money is made (Pantaloon, Bharti,Titan etc) not by looking at the balance sheet but by trying to assess the business model/ management? How does one go about in understanding how one business model would perform better then the other.Is Buffett/Charlie the best read on this subject

 

Would it be suffice to say that business comes ahead of the numbers and if so why is so much stress put on numbers. 

 

Having attended a few conf calls I see that most analysts are focused on what the next quarter is going to be maybe to get their spread sheets correct but even after changing estimates till Q3 they get it wrong for the full year. My question is instead of trying to pinpoint as to how much a company is under.over valued why don't we just try and be subjective that a company is very much under valued or extremely over valued. What is the need for putting targets and then revising it every three months?




While the query from BM wasn't addressed to me nor am I qualified to talk on this subject, just wanted to start a new thread by posting Gurus' thoughts..
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There’s a lot that isn’t wrong at business schools. They do a lot of things right. But what tends to be wrong at business schools is that not enough emphasis is placed on what is a good business, what is a mediocre business and what is a bad business and why.

 

Interestingly enough, when Buffett studied business under Ben Graham at Columbia, you had a genius with the single best student he ever had. And the one thing they never discussed was the difference between a good business & a bad business. It’s amazing the blindsides great institutions have, including great educational institutions

---Charlie Munger

 

My most surprising discovery: the overwhelming importance in business of an unseen force that we might call "the institutional imperative." In business school, I was given no hint of the imperative's existence and I did not intuitively understand it when I entered the business world. I thought then that decent, intelligent, and experienced managers would automatically make rational business decisions. But I learned over time that isn't so. Instead, rationality frequently wilts when the institutional imperative comes into play. ---Warren Buffett (letter to shareholders '89)




 
Excellent explanation Kulmanji. WHat they learn is Black Scholes which is as bad as Duckworth Lewis in 20-20 cricket!
 
 
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
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BGKGURU
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Quote BGKGURU Replybullet Posted: 21/May/2008 at 1:58pm
as per my experience, i can tell abt cas,
ca helps in becoming better investor but it depends on people to people.
i know many people,some cas are doing very detail analysis.
for example my one friend chartred account got tips on united breweries when it was 140 with target of 1000 in 2 years but he didn't invest,he did anylsys on it,compare it with international plyer and then he convinced that it is good investment and he invested all his money in ub at Rs. 300.
so he got tips on 140 but invested it in 300 after due diligence.
same person invested in cesc at 60 and sold at 225 then invested in ub and sold it at 800 then bt diamond cable at 85 and he still hold it although he wants to sell on good opportunity.
 
although he is doing job but he is doing full analsys and sometimes he went company's  factories,office and met with top managment like amit bhatnagar,diamond cable.
 
he invest whole money in one company.
 
i know several chartred accountant who looks on tips only he knows everything that they are investing in business,managment but they feel that mkt moves up don on particular news etc. they understand everything but they don't want to try to understand company. only one excuse they don't have time to look all this. i m chartred accountant and i feel very bad that being chartred accountant they  look after tips. 
  
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Quote xbox Replybullet Posted: 21/May/2008 at 2:09pm
CFA/CA courses provides tools to understand financial market better and story stops here. Investment is more of experience process rather than academic process. On opposite....Citi bank has lots and lots of CA/CFA/MBA worldwide and we all know it's investment experience....Wink.
Don't bet on pig after all bull & bear in circle.
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deveshkayal
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Quote deveshkayal Replybullet Posted: 21/May/2008 at 8:44pm
If I can remember an interview RJ gave to DNA where he said being a CA did help him in investing. I am not able to find the link to that interview.
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett
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kulman
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Quote kulman Replybullet Posted: 21/May/2008 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by deveshkayal

If I can remember an interview RJ gave to DNA where he said being a CA did help him in investing.


There is absolutely no doubt that it should help in investing.

Any kind of additional knowledge not only from accountancy/ finance field but also from other disciplines will be helpful.  What really matters is the 'application of that knowledge'.




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deveshkayal
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Quote deveshkayal Replybullet Posted: 21/May/2008 at 9:19pm
Completely agree with you Kulmanji...Sunil Singhania is a CFA and CA whereas Sandip Sabharwal graduated from IIT...Both have done a good job as a fund manager.
"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett
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basant
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 21/May/2008 at 10:02pm
Sabhrawal is also a IIM!
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
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