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Message Icon Topic: PE de-rating vs. PE re-rating. Post Reply Post New Topic
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Vivek Sukhani
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Quote Vivek Sukhani Replybullet Posted: 15/Apr/2007 at 9:28am
Mr. Vipul,
 
They are toys alright but it can be qiote useful as well. The only thing is that people dont observe the transformation that is taking place, through the help of such ratios.At St. xavier's, I had a friend who used to do moving average calculation with the fundamental figures. Problem, is we look at figures in a vacuum. And then it doesnt make any sense.
 
Mr. Lalit,
 
100 p.c. agree with you. We have to conyinuously roll over the stones to get a pearl. But once we get once, we should try to hold on to them. Also, I beleive that PE-rating/de-rating is done by markets, something which we as individual investors myst not try to take a gauge of. So, by sticking to a few core principles, and PE-re-rating may be one of them if one is comfortable with it, we can easily locate what we wanted..... what will happen with our picks will be best left to market to determine....
 
Regards,
 
Vivek
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kanagala
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Quote kanagala Replybullet Posted: 15/Apr/2007 at 9:31am
Hi,
Do you have any idea how much PRIL earn in 07 and 08?
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basant
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 18/Apr/2007 at 10:04pm
I just thought of suggesting this example to explain how high PE stocks could make more wealth:
 
Let us assume that there are two companies Company L is a low PE co. whereas company H is a high PE company. L trades at a PE of 10 times and grows at 10% whereas H trades at a PE of 25 tiomes and grows at 25%.For sake of simplicity let us assume their base EPS at Rs 10 each in the first year of study:
 

 

2007

2008

2009

Absolute Return

Company L

 

 

 

 

EPS growing at 10%

10

11

12.1

 

PE = G = 10%

10

10

10

 

Stock Price

100

110

121

21%

Company H

 

 

 

 

EPS growing at 25%

10

12.5

15.625

 

PE = G = 10%

25

25

25

 

Stock Price

250

312

390

56%

 

 

 

 

 

 
So higher the PE higher the return. Even if the PE contracts a bit in the case of high PE companies the ent result will be better compared to a relatively lower PE company.
 
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BubbleVision
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Quote BubbleVision Replybullet Posted: 18/Apr/2007 at 10:40pm
BasantJi...Please Clarify if I am wrong.
 
Now let us suppose that the Growth for H slows down to 10 % in 2010 while the growth for L increases to 25%. Then what happens, as according to the calculation above...in 2010
 
L has an EPS of 151 and with a conservative re-rating, PE is asumed to be 15.00....So L is quoted at 226/-
 
H has an EPS of 17.18 ...with the PE derating at 15...the stock would be at 256.00.
 
So in 2010, the absolute return for L would be 126% and H would be 3%.
 
IMO High PE is a "High Risk High Reward" strategy, which may NOT be suited for everyone!!!
 
 


Edited by BubbleVision - 18/Apr/2007 at 10:41pm
You can't make money if you are unwilling to lose...It's like willing to breathe in but not willing to breathe out. -- ED SEYKOTA ....Read Disclaimer!
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basant
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 18/Apr/2007 at 11:15pm
Companies growing at 10% do not experience increased growth. Size does become enemy especially after it becomes large.
 
Even with that hypothetical example the second company had not done bad for investors who have held it since inception. Also switching midway from H to L is more a matter of chance rather then choice.
 
Generally I assume these companies are from different sectors. You can assume HDFC bank as a H and any other company as L. 
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xbox
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Quote xbox Replybullet Posted: 18/Apr/2007 at 5:32am

If we can spot a company which is growing 20-25% and have such visibility for 3-5 years, then most likely search is well executed. PE for growth stock does not matter. MCap matters instead of PE.

<<Serious note>> Sector matters the most. Can we spot sunrise sector ? Cry


Edited by vipul - 18/Apr/2007 at 5:32am
Don't bet on pig after all bull & bear in circle.
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basant
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 18/Apr/2007 at 10:08am
Vipulji: That is the bottomline. You have really defined how to get a multibagger but growth should be in upwards of 35% at least. That is the benchmark I look for and in  6000 listed companies we do get at least four and I want no moreWink

Edited by basant - 18/Apr/2007 at 10:11am
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
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kanagala
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Quote kanagala Replybullet Posted: 19/Apr/2007 at 3:47am
Hi Basant sir,
I have one more question on ROE. ROE is calculated based on the Book value. How reliable are these book values given for each company?.
If we take the example of Bajaj auto, it has significant investment in Insurance in other places. Is Bajaj auto book value represent fair value?
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