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manishdave
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Quote manishdave Replybullet Posted: 22/Mar/2007 at 6:15am
Shashiji,
In long run how can they be competitive if they have this huge built in cost. If business is not doing good, they can give VRS and cut cost but pension cost is built in and out of control. America Auto companies are suffering of this. For example GM/Ford has disadvantage of $3000 coz of pension plans which were promised in past. They can not even down size the business coz then small business has to pay for pension and cost may be 4000/car.
 
Pension could create big trouble down the road even though it may take decade(S).
On positive side SBI has huge real estate(They wont sell them though). I read few years back that value of chairperson's bunglow in Bombay was 300Cr. Now may be 1000Cr. Shouldn't they sell it and give Chairperson buglow that costs 10-20Cr?
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basant
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Quote basant Replybullet Posted: 22/Mar/2007 at 8:59am
I read few years back that value of chairperson's bunglow in Bombay was 300Cr. Now may be 1000Cr. Shouldn't they sell it and give Chairperson buglow that costs 10-20Cr?
________________________________________________________
 
Manish I wish Indian banks worked with such thought and logic. The operative word here is "wish".
 
It seems rather funny but I have always seen a SBI chairman be in office for a few months - and then retires.I doubt what decisions he is able to take as chairman? 
 
'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in
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Quote kulman Replybullet Posted: 25/Mar/2007 at 10:21pm

State and local banks unable to compete with foreign banks

Hundreds of bank branches can be found in India's capital, nestled behind metal grates in concrete buildings and tucked down alleyways off busy thoroughfares. Many of the offices are jockeying for attention with battered signs and offers of high rates for deposits and low-rate loans.

India's drive to become a global economic powerhouse faces a huge roadblock in its inefficient, largely state-controlled financial system, analysts said. Two-thirds of India's banking business is conducted through less than 5 per cent of its branches, and its growing corporate sector has headed overseas for financial advice and loans. Consultants at McKinsey estimate that some US$48 billion could be added to India's annual gross domestic product (GDP), bringing its growth rate on par with China's, if India's financial system were made more productive.

Powerful bank unions and politics, though, are making that impossible, and the issue will come to a head in the next few weeks: An umbrella group of nine bank unions is calling for a nationwide strike at the end of this month to protest a litany of complaints, including pressure to merge.

India's banking system has its roots in sometimes centuries-old regional banks that spread through acquisitions and as their customers migrated. The major banks were nationalised in 1969 amid promises of lending to rural areas and secure jobs, especially for the underclasses.

The legacy of banks as tools for social reform, though, is colliding with India's accelerating economic growth. An estimated 70 per cent of Indian citizens are still not part of the banking system, while bureaucracy and inefficiencies are leaching benefits from faster growing parts of the economy, said political leaders and economists.

'We need a further deepening and widening through a reform of our banking and financial system,' Prime Minister Manmohan Singh recently told executives at a conference in Delhi, 'so that the underlying potential of savings and resources can be mobilised and deployed efficiently.'

Making changes, though, is proving difficult and slow. Despite India's big and rapidly growing middle class, and the global ambitions of its corporate sector, its banks remain tiny and their focus local. Only one, the State Bank of India, numbered among the world's top 250 banking companies ranked by assets, comes in at No 83, according to data from American Banker. In contrast, there are four Chinese banks in the top 35.

An attempt to lower the government's stake in public banks from 51 to 33 per cent and to allow them to merge with each other has been met with staunch resistance from the 750,000 public bank employees, who have strong unions.

As the country's fast-growing corporate sector takes off, the banks are being left behind. None of the multibillion-dollar cross-border deals that Indian companies have undertaken in recent months have relied on a state bank. Instead, companies are turning to Wall Street firms and global commercial banks.

Foreign private banks are also knocking on the door, hoping to lure high earners from the country that this year became Asia's biggest home of billionaires, knocking Japan from the top spot.

Ultimately, state and local banks may not be able to compete, leaving the country with a two-tiered system, with the largest companies and richest individuals putting their money elsewhere, the gloomiest critics said.

Suggestions for fixing the system include lifting lending requirements to direct assets from small businesses to the more profitable corporate sector, allowing more foreign ownership of Indian banks, and reducing state ownership in the banking system.

Right now, the largely state-dominated banking system funnels about 70 per cent of the net savings of the economy into government and state-owned enterprises, and finances a huge budget deficit, about 9 per cent of GDP, McKinsey said. Making changes necessary and reducing the government's dependence on these funds would require huge changes in the way that India thinks about its banking system, from a solution to social ills to an independent capitalist industry.

'If there ever was a time that India can afford to make some of those changes, it is now,' said Diana Farrell, director of the McKinsey Global Institute. The statement is 'not a prediction, but a plea', she added.

The government's insistence on holding a controlling stake in the country's biggest banks is 'what's holding up growth at the moment', said Amit Tandon, managing director with Fitch Ratings in Mumbai, and a former head of investment banking operations at ICICI Bank, one of India's largest private banks. Private banks, which make up less than a quarter of India's financial system, consistently outperform their government peers.

While all of the State Bank of India branches now have computers, less than half of these can communicate with each other. Customers who make a deposit at one branch wait 10 to 15 days before being able to receive it at another.

The State Bank of India, the largest government-controlled bank, has 9,000 branches, 1,000 more than the global financial giant Citigroup and its subsidiary CitiFinancial together, and some 205,500 employees.

Managers said they are not concerned about new competition from foreign banks. 'People have faith in the bank and the service is there,' said a manager in the Delhi branch. - NYT

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manishdave
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Quote manishdave Replybullet Posted: 25/Mar/2007 at 6:48am
Originally posted by basant

I read few years back that value of chairperson's bunglow in Bombay was 300Cr. Now may be 1000Cr. Shouldn't they sell it and give Chairperson buglow that costs 10-20Cr?
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Manish I wish Indian banks worked with such thought and logic. The operative word here is "wish".
 
It seems rather funny but I have always seen a SBI chairman be in office for a few months - and then retires.I doubt what decisions he is able to take as chairman? 
 
 
 
Oh! So they have expensive guest house!Wink
 
 
But if - sorry when PSU banking goes into trouble, one should buy. Our GOVT will come with fatwa that any deposit less than Rs. 100,000 or more than 1,000,000 can be kept only with PSU bank.


Edited by manishdave - 25/Mar/2007 at 6:53am
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Quote manishdave Replybullet Posted: 25/Mar/2007 at 7:07am
Kulmanji,
This arlicle is harsh reality. But at the same time it is opp for HDFC/ICICI/Yes Bank. They don't need to fight for mkt share with each other for years to come.
 
Mention of Chinese banks is not true picture. They have less no. of banks, bigger economy and no private banks. But besides size even our psu banks are better their Chinese counterparts.


Edited by manishdave - 25/Mar/2007 at 7:08am
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Quote kulman Replybullet Posted: 26/Mar/2007 at 9:49am

Sticky days for banks’ retail-loan books (dna money)

 

 

Higher interest rates are expected to increase bad loans of banks in the retail and agriculture segments.

 

Loans given out by banks on which either the interest or the instalment on principal remains unpaid for more than 90 days are classified as non-performing assets  (NPAs) or bad loans.

 

A recent report by Merrill Lynch expects gross NPAs to increase 16% by financial year 2008. However, the report said, gross NPAs as a percentage of loans are not expected to rise significantly.

 

Currently retail lending by banks (both private sector and public) stands at 20% of their total loans.

 

Robin Roy, principal consultant at PricewaterhouseCoopers, said the economy’s 9% growth rate coupled with inflationary pressures and higher interest rates would impact home-loan borrowers. “This will lead to incapability to repay on time. Moreover, national income levels are not growing as sharply as credit growth is, which would, over the longer term, give rise to the build-up of inferior quality loan portfolios,” he said. The quality of loan portfolios often mirror the impacted cash flows of borrowers, which in turn is an indication of a heat up in speculative sectors such as real estate and capital markets, the security against which banks would have lent, Roy said.

 

He expects NPAs to rise in personal loans and credit card receivables as well. “Asset-based retail loans could swell by a percentage point if repayments structures are not managed properly,” Roy said.

 

Bankers said any fresh increase in interest rates could have significant impact in terms of bad loans. “Home loan borrowers will definitely find it difficult to repay in case there is a further hike in the interest rate,” said Aseem Dhru, executive vice-president head of business banking with HDFC Bank.

 

Rana Kapoor, chairman and managing director, YES Bank, concurs. He said retail assets are the most vulnerable to rate hikes.  Kapoor believes banks will have to come up with a proper pricing policy on the retail side to curtail the growth of NPAs in years to come.

 

Credit Suisse analysts Aditya Singhania, Sanjay Jain and Anand Swaminathan, in a review report of the banking sector last week said: “We expect delinquencies to rise from current levels, but remain well below historical levels of 3.5-4.5% of opening loans. We also expect loan loss provisions to rise significantly (1.5% of average loans in FY3/08E), driven by higher delinquency and higher standard asset provisions”.

 

“Gross and net NPAs should also rise, but remain low,” they added. Housing loans have increased and comprise about 43% of retail loans following strong growth in the last two years. Personal loans constitute about 28%.

 

“NPAs by way of home loans and personal loans will add 150-200 basis points to the gross NPA levels,” said an official of Bank of Rajasthan.

 

Gross NPA levels which were about 15% in 1990s have dropped down to about 2-3% in case of public sector banks and about 3-4% in case of private sector banks.

 

In the 1990s banks’ saw a rise in their NPA levels mainly due to defaulting in sectors like steel, chemicals and textiles. However, over the past few years NPA levels for banks have come down steadily.

 

“We had a tough time getting down our total gross NPA in 1990s been 15% which have dropped down to less than 3% today. At that time, sectors like cement and textile were defaulting heavily. Over the years, due to better delivery and monitory systems, we have seen a decline in the NPA levels,” said an SBI official. However, he feels that with increasing borrowing costs today, might lead to an increase in delinquencies.

 

 

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s_praharaj
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Quote s_praharaj Replybullet Posted: 27/Mar/2007 at 3:53pm
Manish,
The PSU Banks are operating under a lot of constraints. They can't do things independantly,even though business considerations compels them. Giving VRS to excess employees is a political decission, and it has too many ramifications. In earlier VRS, I observed, many good officers went in VRS and took job elsewhere, and the Banks lost a lot of talent. They left the Bank, because they got a hefty VRS package. In normal circumstanes, without VRS, they would have preferred to stay with the Bank.
 
Pension is no doubt a big burden for the Banks. For SBI it is not a very big burden, because it is there right from its inception. The pension fund is existing for more than a century and big enough to take care of the burden. I don't think there is any risk to SBI for pensions.
 
As far as PSU Banks are concerned, all the employees joined after 1997-98 are compulsorily enrolled for pensions. Those who opted for pensions during 1997-98 will get pensions. Only those who have not opted for pensions in 97-98 are now demanding pension, as the interest rate has come down substantially. Its definitely a big burden for the PSU Banks, and Govt is also well aware and not agreeing to the request. If the pension is at all  given, that will be given with so many riders, which will
be a win-win situation for both the unions and Banks.
 
I read both the articles posted by Kulmanji. Both the articles are excellent and the problems envisaged by the author are genuine. It speaks grimly about the PSU Banks and its future. But we have to accept the things as it is. We can not deny the services rendered by the PSU Banks in the social and economic development of our country. Yes, recent policies of RBI and Finance ministry put the PSU Banks in a critical position.
 
so, considering from an investment point of view, the future does not look rosy for PSU Banks.As an investor, we have a lot of choices and we have to take our decissions.
Shashi Praharaj
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Vivek Sukhani
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Quote Vivek Sukhani Replybullet Posted: 27/Mar/2007 at 4:21pm

I sometimes wonder, how come they are borrowing at such high rates???? Also Shashi, all talks of interest rates moderating appears wishful thinking....is inflation getting quieter.... its not... so rates will conitune its northwardly march..... even if India Inc. is earning and so are its people yet we are in a situation where the real growth is not taking place at all.... just tell me whats the point in growing at 9% with inflation at 6.5 percent....whats the fun?????? I beleive the first take should be to moderate inflation....even if some growth be sacrificed for that....just imagine borrowing at 10 p.c. lending at 15 p.c. ....this imply that the borrowers return must exceed 15 p.c. for him to make any sense to borrow....now take a pause, how long and what business offers you such returns over a long period of time...I beleive something's terribly wrong, and one need not be a rocket scientist to figure that out at all....

Just work out the impact of rates on Housing and Auto sectors.....very very negative. I am not trying to paint any gloomy picture here I beleive because of our small size when it comes to loan market vis-a-vis developed countries.... even a small setback can hit us very very hard. I dont know what that tipping point of interest rate will be.... but that we are approaching there is becoming obvious. Cash is the biggest casulaty of inflation and all banks deal in is cash...
 
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