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vinvestor2010
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Quote vinvestor2010 Replybullet Posted: 30/Jun/2010 at 4:50pm
Hi a few simple tricks I use while checking the firm
-is the firm held by the promoter directly or through a holding firm. If it is through a holding firm and that is privately held, it is difficult for us to know about it and it is a minus.
-what are related party transactions - if there are sales subtract the related sales,if costs add the costs then take the adjusted intrinsic value
-has the company given any deposits or taken loans from subsidiaries or holding companies
-does the company pay a very large royalty to parent firm just like that
-is the promoter salary ex of dividend {because this is shared with shareholders} rising faster than profits
-who are the independent directors are they on reputed firms.
-is the promoter a page 3 type, big minus though this is my personal view Big%20smile
-is the promoter unnecessarily pledging shares and is interested in real estate
-have they been fined for frauds etc in watchoutinvestor database.
-is the company involved in government projects etc especially in states like Bihar, North East etc
-type company and promoter name with words like problem, fraud, default etc type negative adjectives in google
-check equitydesk old threads
-does the management suffer from title inflation. For example does everybody have a title starting with Chief or President. For e.g in Pantaloon they had a Chief Belief Officer who used to tell ACK stories Smile
-is the company giving dividend even when debt is high (e.g HCCBig%20smile}
-does the promoter focus more on capital structure timepass rather than improving operations e.g Munna Mobile Wink
 
unfortunately none of these would help us with Satyam types, but I guess someting is better than nothing. And after some time this does not take more than 15 mins per company guaranteed.
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kulman
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Quote kulman Replybullet Posted: 30/Jun/2010 at 5:19pm
Originally posted by vinvestor2010

Hi a few simple tricks I use while checking the firm


Nice summary & very logical.

Originally posted by vinvestor2010

-does the management suffer from title inflation. For example does everybody have a title starting with Chief or President. For e.g in Pantaloon they had a Chief Belief Officer who used to tell ACK stories


LOL ha ha ha

I know someone working with a very large MNC. His main job is to make wonderful presentations at seminars/conferences. Jokingly we call him Chief Ppt Officer.




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vinvestor2010
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Quote vinvestor2010 Replybullet Posted: 30/Jun/2010 at 6:51pm
Oh ya title inflation is quite common. if the person is heading a separate P&L or spinoff and reporting directly to CEO the chief stuff is ok , otherwise the company does not have a mind of its own and as Charlie Munger said it is unlikely to be candid in other areas especially reporting poor financial performance.
A more general example , I was watching an old video of Britains Got Talent a music show, one of the very good guys was a Michael Jackson duplicate. At least in India we call them duplicate especially of film stars. He was introduced as a tribute artist Big%20smile.
Coca Cola now has a Chief Blogging Officer.Some more stuff here
 
some more promoter / manager check items that might be useful
-what is the salary of the top guys as a % of total manpower expense
-what is the % of total salary in equity at reasonable option prices, higher is better i.e more equity, less cash
-calculate the salary with stock options as an expense, this will change automatically from IFRS next year but even then for the moment it should be added
-unnecessary loans being given by company to promoters/mgmt
-how many of the guys are organically growing with the company, how many of them are fly in fly out types etc
-is the company registered in tax havens like- e.g Jet Airways for some strange reason is listed in Isle of Man. Mauritius can be excluded because we have some specific tax advantages that allows companies from there.
-is the auditor changing every year (from Alok Bholaji's excellent observation on Micro Technologies.
this is of course a list that I use, might not work for everyone so pick choose what you guys think works.
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adityancs
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Quote adityancs Replybullet Posted: 30/Jun/2010 at 10:34pm
It has been gathered that if there is foreign equity participation, (even though company is small) manipulation of accounts will be minimum. Is it true?
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camanoj
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Quote camanoj Replybullet Posted: 30/Jun/2010 at 11:20pm
vinvestor2010,
 
What's wrong with govt projects in Bihar ,NE? Glodyne Technoserve has a large e-gov project from Bihar govt. The stock is in a solid long term uptrend. should this stock be avoided?
 
Munna Mobile - who's that?
Manoj
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vinvestor2010
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Quote vinvestor2010 Replybullet Posted: 30/Jun/2010 at 1:59am
Originally posted by camanoj

vinvestor2010,
 
What's wrong with govt projects in Bihar ,NE? Glodyne Technoserve has a large e-gov project from Bihar govt. The stock is in a solid long term uptrend. should this stock be avoided?
 
Munna Mobile - who's that?
Manoj ji I should have stated areas with geographical and governance risks
 
If the Bihar project is 1% of order book no issue, however if it is 50% of order book you should demand extra margin of safety in the form of low debt,lots of cash good execution record etc.
This is because
-Bihar is undergoing an election this year, the project may face implementation risks due to code of conduct, policy uncertainity etc.
-Look at the 284 cr from a margin perspective and an NPV value basis is it that big.
-Projects on a BOOT basis for Govt are Capex heavy because the company has to buy servers etc and operate for govt, this reduces margins.
-I have cousins in Bihar and am originally from there and honestly government contracts there are a difficult business.
 
Additional comments I had put are here. Also, this is a cursory view I do not track Glodyne in great detail.
 
Another recent example is Punj Lloyd, because one of their projects in Libya which I think is 41% of order book and is delayed, the whole company is being punished.It will recover but many investors are suffering.
 
Also as I stated , this is my personal view, and you need to look at these factors in combination. For example if TCS, Infy were doing this and the project was even 3000 crores it would be very different.
 
Munna Mobile is one of the superheroes in a very entertaining thread, you need to find it yourself Wink
 
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Bhupan
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Quote Bhupan Replybullet Posted: 30/Jun/2010 at 11:29am
Originally posted by camanoj

vinvestor2010,

 
Munna Mobile - who's that?



Yeehhhhh   Munna Mobile nahi janta  ??? Dead     Angry   Ouch  


idhar dekho

Yeh anjaan investors ki band baja dega  .
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vinvestor2010
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Quote vinvestor2010 Replybullet Posted: 02/Jul/2010 at 1:06pm
 
Hi a related excellent post on equity desk only earlier on Accounting adjustments.
If you read it with this thread together can be useful.
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