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Shankar Sharma and Devina Mehra

Printed From: The Equity Desk
Category: Market Strategies
Forum Name: Investment resources - The Knowledge Buzz
Forum Discription: Share thoughts and information about where you get all the company/investing informtaion from. Talk about websites, books, news papers, journals TV shows that others could benefit from.
URL: http://www.theequitydesk.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=452
Printed Date: 12/May/2024 at 11:36am


Topic: Shankar Sharma and Devina Mehra
Posted By: basant
Subject: Shankar Sharma and Devina Mehra
Date Posted: 05/Oct/2006 at 7:59pm
 Has a good chapter on Shankar Sharma of First Global & his wife Devina Mehra. 
_____________________________________________________
Write more about them I know Shankar personally but I admire him for his thought not what he (supposedly) did with KP.


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'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in



Replies:
Posted By: BubbleVision
Date Posted: 05/Oct/2006 at 8:05pm
BasantJi and Kulman...Could you please write on what he (supposedly) did with KP as i dont know a bit....
Would be highly appreciated...


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You can't make money if you are unwilling to lose...It's like willing to breathe in but not willing to breathe out. -- ED SEYKOTA ....Read Disclaimer!


Posted By: investor
Date Posted: 05/Oct/2006 at 8:10pm

Shankar Sharma still appears on CNBC on the your stocks program every now and then.

Originally posted by kulman

For those who are interested in finding about scams in Indian markets, I would recommend following book:
 
THE SCAM: From Harshad Mehta to Ketan Parekh (includes JPC & GTB). Written by Debashis Basu & Sucheta Dalal (Kensource Publicn, Rs 250)
 
Authors are financial journalists and give a good account of events, chronology etc. Has a good chapter on Shankar Sharma of First Global & his wife Devina Mehra.
 
 
 
 


Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 05/Oct/2006 at 8:12pm
Well, it says that both the husband and wife are well-educated (Devina from IIM-A), how they met & married while working for Citibank.
 
Initially their methodology was value-picks & totally contrarion approach. It worked for them...they became popular with FIIs. When they advised "Sell" due to over-valuations, markets would still move up due to dot-com days. Then they started fabricating "buy" calls. Subsequently, were allegedly involved in insider trades for HFCL, fight with ET, SEBI etc...
 
The moral of the whole story, at least what I could make out is "Be humble", "do not try to act like market-makers"


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Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards


Posted By: BubbleVision
Date Posted: 05/Oct/2006 at 8:18pm
Thanks Kulman...I know for a fact that they lived in NY when they were banned from indian markets.
i also know that Shankar is bearish on Crude since it was 40 in 2004.


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You can't make money if you are unwilling to lose...It's like willing to breathe in but not willing to breathe out. -- ED SEYKOTA ....Read Disclaimer!


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 05/Oct/2006 at 8:24pm

Yes and Shankar was doing some deals for HFCL till as late as last year if I can recollect but like so many other investors I tend to over look these things He talks a lot of sense. Although he was against all the three main stock that I owe!



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'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: Equity Buff
Date Posted: 05/Oct/2006 at 8:41pm
Originally posted by basant

Yes and Shankar was doing some deals for HFCL till as late as last year if I can recollect but like so many other investors I tend to over look these things He talks a lot of sense. Although he was against all the three main stock that I owe!

 
Basantjee,
 
The above is a typo "I owe"(I think). Suppose it is I own.
 
Are they Pantaloon, Trent & TV 18 ?
 
How interseting, that a very well known and successful investor like Mr. Shankar Sharma was against your three main stocks. Just goes to show if you believe in a story(stock), have the conviction and patience for the story to play out, just go for it.
 
Rgds.


Posted By: Equity Buff
Date Posted: 06/Oct/2006 at 12:09pm
Although he was against all the three main stock that I owe!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Basantjee,
 
Pls reply to above post if it does not make you uncomfortable (3 main stocks). Either way I will understand.
 
Thanks.
 
 
 


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 06/Oct/2006 at 12:36pm
Yes, It were the same three stockstrent, pantaloon and Tv18 , Shankar did like Pantaloon and trent initially but then he said that valuations had run up so that was it. On Tv 18 he was never convinced as he thought that the prime time slot is fixed and so there could be no volume increase and his argument was that pricing power can get you only that much at the end of it you need volumes to go up. But like Ramesh Damani Shankar Sharma also went wromng when he predicted in October 2005 that the bull market is over.And like Damani has turned bullish again. He had this famous quote that the "market will spare no one whether you are George Soros or Michael Steinhardt this animal will get you some day. It is just like playing Russian roulette".
 


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'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: reetesh
Date Posted: 06/Oct/2006 at 1:11pm
You have to give credit that Shankar Sharma who said first when we sarted a fresh move from 8800 that we will hit new high, he was bearish on Crude and one or two calls that he made was also correct, and in investment also you need that "X" factor. I don`t like people giving PRAWACHAN to different people that dont time the market and that particular people say get back 30% in cashand then buy a truck load of stock first then come on a public forum and ask people to buy,what the hell you want to teach you are not sure of what you are saying, they are surviving beacuse they have contacts and money..

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When going gets tough, that’s when tough (people) gets going.


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 06/Oct/2006 at 1:26pm
Yes, Shankar Sharma is really smart he was the first to have identified Satyam and Infy in 1995. He sold Infy at a PE of 100 and it went up to a PE of 300 from there on.
 
And to your PRAVACHAN part the less said the better. SOme analysts are taking on an above God figure and the crowd will not take time to realise that.


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'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: BubbleVision
Date Posted: 06/Oct/2006 at 1:46pm
"market will spare no one whether you are George Soros or Michael Steinhardt this animal will get you some day. It is just like playing Russian roulette".
---------------------------
 
I for one would completely subscribe to this one...While every one knows that Soros made a billion dollars overnight in 1992, betting on a fall in the pound..Very few know that he lost a similar amount in 1995, betting on a rally in the Jap Yen.
The most important part for me is how much you make when you are correct and how much you lose when you are wrong...


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You can't make money if you are unwilling to lose...It's like willing to breathe in but not willing to breathe out. -- ED SEYKOTA ....Read Disclaimer!


Posted By: reetesh
Date Posted: 06/Oct/2006 at 1:50pm
As far as KP scam is concern, everybody houses and offices were raided including that of RJ`s and RD`s of the world, but Shankar never came out of it because he was involved with tehelka, and in my view he is better than any R. "DAM" person. He is much more transparent than anyone one who come on chat show(s) and prove that retail investors are suckers and in my view doing social favour is much more than you buy a stock at 150 and come to public reco. them to buy at 250, and excuse was it was half baked at 150.  


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When going gets tough, that’s when tough (people) gets going.


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 06/Oct/2006 at 2:11pm
Bubble Vision: http://www.theequitydesk.com/george_soros.asp - Soros lost a few in the NASDAQ crash also in 1999 he first went short and then at the top was long.
 
Reetesh : I like your half baked analogy if it was half baked why did you buy it is one question I would like to ask to any one who gives me that excuse. But in this field any one can lose his reputation only once. See Shankar Sharma inspite of being such a whizz still finds some resentment so time will bear them out.


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'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 06/Oct/2006 at 2:19pm

Basantjee

 
You are right about reputation. In one of letters to the shareholders Buffet mentions these golden words:
 
"It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently."


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Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards


Posted By: reetesh
Date Posted: 06/Oct/2006 at 2:20pm
This exactly what I want to ask them why did you buy this and why dont you share your ideads when you have have not entered it, people say (I will not name but has given enough clue) that he is doing for betterment of small investor but in my view it is being used more for his betterment. 
 
Yes I agree with you, that you lose your reputation only once, so I will rate Shankar in same league that of RJ and RD, but Shankar is more of a professional man than others.


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When going gets tough, that’s when tough (people) gets going.


Posted By: Ajith
Date Posted: 06/Oct/2006 at 3:07pm
Trouble with following the Indian market gurus is that you never,absolutely never will be able to get their initial moves on any stock NOR THEIR VERY BEST IDEAS. 
R  Damani is so honest he vehemently pleaded at one point in a chat show to allow some privacy regarding his personal portfolio.But one thing is certain he does share some deep insights as do others like PN Vijay who has a keen investing sense.And ofcourse Shankar Sharma and his equally brilliant wife have been right most of the time.RJ needs no mention.
All these are bright ones in the market who as Adam Smith says in The Money Game will always make money.
 


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Ajith


Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 06/Oct/2006 at 3:15pm
I recall one show on CNBC sometime last year.
 
Shankar Sharma & RJ could not agree on anything, one could sense that there was some kind of problem/tension between them...even avoiding eye-contacts etc ........ RJ, a heavyweight in all senses, literally floored Shankar Sharma.
 
 


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Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards


Posted By: BubbleVision
Date Posted: 06/Oct/2006 at 3:19pm

The Biggest lost reputation on Wall Street was of Joe Granville, the famous tech analyst.

a good link about Granville is http://carlfutia.blogspot.com/2005/04/forecasting-giants-of-past.html - http://carlfutia.blogspot.com/2005/04/forecasting-giants-of-past.html
 
Kulman RJ seems to heavy in everything...


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You can't make money if you are unwilling to lose...It's like willing to breathe in but not willing to breathe out. -- ED SEYKOTA ....Read Disclaimer!


Posted By: monu_duggad
Date Posted: 06/Oct/2006 at 3:21pm
Kulmanji
Was shankar sharma also involved in some scam ?


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If you think you can,You Can


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 01/Nov/2006 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by monu_duggad

Wow  Waise on CNBC diwali show...RJ beat the hell outta shankar sharma...shankar was speaking like a typical analyst "booming eco..drop in oil...no int rate fears...15 % cagr in equities ..valuation stretched..minor correction expected" etc etc...RJ was at his usual best...even udayan dint have to do anything...he left the 2 of them on there own !!
 
 
Sometimes Shankar talks like a positional trader and I never think that his idea of looking for crude falling for buying HP/BP was that big a deal as he tried to make it on TV. Any one knew that it was not really rocket science. P.N.Vijay and Manish Chokhani with RJ would have been an ideal combination.


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'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: India_Bull
Date Posted: 01/Nov/2006 at 9:22pm

Dont think so but I always think Shankar Sharma seems to be on the negative side all the time on the public forums



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India_Bull forever Bull !
www.kapilcomedynights.com


Posted By: India_Bull
Date Posted: 01/Nov/2006 at 9:34pm
Both seem to me pessimistic, however I liked his point abt concerns of retail investor need to invest in bluechip/index stocks during a common Diwali show with RJ. RJ always dominates the other analsts. I do remember him shouting at Prakash Gaba in one of the show when he was talking about targets ...

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India_Bull forever Bull !
www.kapilcomedynights.com


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 14/Nov/2006 at 9:21pm
Shankar Sharma on that Diwali show said that he will b closely watching Low cost carriers.it seems interesting.whats your view on LCCs.


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 14/Nov/2006 at 9:28pm
Have never been bullish on airline carriers and SHankar SHarma is a positional trader he may go negative after 6 months also.

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'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: kattur
Date Posted: 14/Nov/2006 at 9:54pm

when you brush aside China as a country capable of making nothing other than stuffed toys, there is something wrong with your thinking process.  If the cat closes the eyes, the world doesn't become dark.  Atleast the RJs and RDs of this world are reasonably open - RJ never gives any tips and says so and RD definitely tries to help the retail invester.  I find so many of you on his chats - so what if he buys something at 150 and tells you when it is at 250 - if it goes to 500, is that not good enough?  So let us dump pretentious experts and go with those who atleast make an effort to help retail investers.  Hope we will put to rest soon the SSs of this world.



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kattur


Posted By: Ajith
Date Posted: 14/Nov/2006 at 10:06pm
 No doubt RJ ,PN Vijay,Manish Chokhani and RDamani  are in a class of their own yet I would back the maverick opinionated Shankar Sharma and Devina Sharma for their unconventional opinions. But I cant believe he meant  it when he said the Chinese can make only stuffed toys-perhaps he was saying innovation will thrive only in democracies.

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Ajith


Posted By: ankit18
Date Posted: 26/Nov/2006 at 4:02pm
I do like RJ and his views on the market. Other analysts appearing on CNBC couldnt be compared to him.

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Markets are never wrong. Opinions are!!!


Posted By: sureshb
Date Posted: 28/Sep/2007 at 8:02pm
ss is now quoting that sensex will touch 25000 in 6-9 months


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 28/Sep/2007 at 8:17pm
Let us give him about 4 months to make up his mindLOL

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'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: vip1
Date Posted: 29/Sep/2007 at 1:42pm
ss is now quoting that sensex will touch 25000 in 6-9 months
 
Bottom 10,000 and Top 25000 , Sensex rangebound rahega ConfusedOuch


Posted By: deveshkayal
Date Posted: 29/Sep/2007 at 1:47pm
Bottom 10,000 and Top 25000 , Sensex rangebound rahega ConfusedOuch
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LOLLOL


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"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beat the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential"- Warren Buffett


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 29/Sep/2007 at 2:21pm

I think the stop loss on the downside is 9999 and on the upside yes, you guessed it well it is 25001!!!



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'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: experteye
Date Posted: 16/Jul/2008 at 11:34am
Mr.Sharma ji ,read and forcast................
Obese means having much of body fat that the health is at risk. Too much body fat can lead to heart disease, diabetes, sleep apnea, high blood pressure and arthritis.

A measurement called a body mass index, or BMI, decides whether a person’s weight is suffering from obesity. To calculate the BMI - is combination of weight and height. If, a BMI of 30 or higher, it is considered to be extra weight.

Risk Factors and Causes
Many factors can contribute to obesity and overweight, such as, lifestyle choices (e.g., lack of exercise), medical conditions (e.g., hypothyroidism), and genetics (i.e., heredity). When a person takes in more calories than he or she uses, overweight and obesity result. These excess calories are stored in the body as fat, and unless weight-control strategies are put into place, more and more weight is gained.
Most of the people gain weight when they eat high - calories food and don’t exercise enough, but there are some other factors which includes weight gain too:

· Lifestyle habits often affect calorie consumption and exercise. - Lifestyle choices, medical conditions, and genetics contribute to obesity

· Certain social factors also may be linked to obesity.

· Alcohol adds calories to the diet, increases appetite.

· Psychological/emotional issues (Stress and boredom may lead people to eat more and exercise less.)

Obesity and overweight can be genetic (i.e., run in families). Genes have some control over the quantity and location of stored body fat. Therefore, obese parents are more likely to have obese or overweight children.

Weight gain usually happens over time. Most people know when they have gained weight. Some of the signs of overweight or obesity include:

· Clothes feeling tight and needing a larger size.

· The scale showing that you have gained weight.

· Having extra fat around the waist.


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more risk,more profit but have a vision before taking risk,itis all about investment in equities market.


Posted By: furkanalam
Date Posted: 17/Jul/2008 at 2:53pm
Shankar Sharma sucks big time.....
 
He thinks he is too smart for his own boots......This man needs some whipping on his back......that will surely bring him back to his senses....


Posted By: prashant
Date Posted: 17/Jul/2008 at 3:33pm
SS and Devina is  Bunty Aur Bubly team of India stock market. 

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Prashant


Posted By: PrashantS
Date Posted: 17/Jul/2008 at 4:04pm
these guys know what is happening in the inside....i honestly dont think they are nothing more than speculators...i beleieve they do a lot of insder stuff...not worth talking about them


Posted By: kumardiwesh
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2008 at 2:26pm
Aa gaye Shankar bhaiyya phir se:
http://moneycontrol.com/india/news/market-outlook/book-profits-if-mkt-surges-25here-shankar-sharma/13/50/348331 - http://moneycontrol.com/india/news/market-outlook/book-profits-if-mkt-surges-25here-shankar-sharma/13/50/348331


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"History does not tell you the probability of future financial things happening" - Warren Buffett


Posted By: experteye
Date Posted: 23/Jul/2008 at 9:53am
Here are some great ways of dealing with the burdens of life:

* Accept that some days you're the pigeon, and some days you're the statue.

* Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them.

* Always read stuff that will make you look good in case you die in the middle of it.

* Drive carefully. It's not only cars that can be recalled by their maker.

* If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague.

* It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply being kind to others.

* Never put both feet in your mouth at the same time, because then you won't have a leg to stand on.

* Nobody cares if you can't dance well. Just get up and dance.

* When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.

* Birthdays are good for you. The more you have, the longer you live.

* You may be only one person in the world, but you may also be the world to one person.

* Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.

* We could learn a lot from crayons. - Some are sharp, some are pretty and some are dull. Some have weird names, and all are different colours, but they all have to live in the same box.

*A truly happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery on a detour.


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more risk,more profit but have a vision before taking risk,itis all about investment in equities market.


Posted By: mukeshmjain
Date Posted: 15/Nov/2008 at 3:47am
Though repetitive I think it is worth putting below link here
 
http://www.moneycontrol.com/india/news/market-outlook/jhunjhunwala-shankar-sharma-differm/04/16/363547 - http://www.moneycontrol.com/india/news/market-outlook/jhunjhunwala-shankar-sharma-differm/04/16/363547
 


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"Be Fearful When Others Are Greedy and Greedy When Others Are Fearful" - Warren Buffett


Posted By: arunshah2k
Date Posted: 19/Nov/2008 at 10:15am
Shankar Sharma is back with his new views:

- Crude slipping to 10$

- If the current situation continues, people will desert equity markets for 5-10 years !!!!!!


Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 19/Nov/2008 at 10:20am
Originally posted by arunshah2k

Shankar Sharma is back with his new views:

- Crude slipping to 10$

- If the current situation continues, people will desert equity markets for 5-10 years !!!!!!


And we will live like Mad Max. We're half way there.


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Posted By: equity analyst
Date Posted: 20/Nov/2008 at 12:24pm
then wht shd we do for next 5-10 years .....he shd only tell us and wht companies r goin to do with no equity mkt, no cash in balance sheet ,no working capital.........
shd i get a auto rickshaw for my self kya..........Confused


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"Markets are the places where two types of people meet up in the morning: those with experience and those with money. Towards the end of the day, they exchange their assets and go home."


Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 20/Nov/2008 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by equity analyst

then wht shd we do for next 5-10 years .....he shd only tell us and wht companies r goin to do with no equity mkt, no cash in balance sheet ,no working capital.........
shd i get a auto rickshaw for my self kya..........Confused


Arre Bhai, I think people should watch Mel Gibson's Mad Max or Kevin Costner's WaterWorld for how to live in the future Dead.


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Posted By: arunshah2k
Date Posted: 20/Nov/2008 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by equity analyst

then wht shd we do for next 5-10 years .....he shd only tell us and wht companies r goin to do with no equity mkt, no cash in balance sheet ,no working capital.........
shd i get a auto rickshaw for my self kya..........Confused


We may need to do that. Because whatever Shankar has said this year has come true. Shocked

Also, in case people desert equity markets for 5-10 years, then what will Shankar Sharma's company do? I think Shankar will become a Halwai LOL





Posted By: xbox
Date Posted: 20/Nov/2008 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by arunshah2k

Shankar Sharma is back with his new views:

- Crude slipping to 10$

- If the current situation continues, people will desert equity markets for 5-10 years !!!!!!
Is this sign of trend reversal..who knows ? prediction of 93% down from top...after all oil comes from 'real-estate', hence why any difference ...Smile

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Don't bet on pig after all bull & bear in circle.


Posted By: India_Bull
Date Posted: 20/Nov/2008 at 4:13pm
I was thinking why SS has not opened his mouth yet !! Someone needs to escalate his case to Baj Backre !! That is the only solution ..

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India_Bull forever Bull !
www.kapilcomedynights.com


Posted By: arunshah2k
Date Posted: 20/Nov/2008 at 10:18am
Here is the video of Shankar Sharma's interview on NDTV.

http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/video/video.aspx?id=44671


Posted By: arunshah2k
Date Posted: 20/Nov/2008 at 10:41am
As usual, he paints a bleak picture.

But given that he has been consistently right this year (not once, but many times), it is important to give attention to what is saying.

I understand one thing that capital is going to be tough, so if someone is remain invested in equities, then better stick with firms that rely on less capital for expansion.

Also, going by the current trend, all stocks that haven't fallen much will be the ones that FIIs will sell and take money out.


Posted By: pinaki
Date Posted: 20/Nov/2008 at 11:38am

Most of the FII selling seems to be over. FIIs will retain some of their India holdings after all.



Posted By: furkanalam
Date Posted: 21/Nov/2008 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by pinaki

Most of the FII selling seems to be over. FIIs will retain some of their India holdings after all.

 
FII selling is not over.....
Data for last few days
 
12/11/2008  -266.5cr
14/11/2008  -615.1cr
17/11/2008  -564.2cr
18/11/2008  -631.9cr
19/11/2008  -369.3cr
20/11/2008  -208.1cr
 
So last 6 days they have sold almost 2500cr(almost $0.5billion)


Posted By: xbox
Date Posted: 21/Nov/2008 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by pinaki

Most of the FII selling seems to be over. FIIs will retain some of their India holdings after all.

oh!! sure, they will retain..who knows when and how much. Ouch

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Don't bet on pig after all bull & bear in circle.


Posted By: tigershark
Date Posted: 22/Nov/2008 at 3:04pm
pinaki if india and china go into recession and you have money in us mutual fund and european funds and if the whole world is going to becom a smaller place becos of this events how much will you retain in your international funds?

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understanding both the power of compound return and the difficulty getting it is the heart and soul of understanding a lot of things


Posted By: Circuit
Date Posted: 29/Nov/2008 at 8:46am
Getting out of jail on parole…for a couple of weeks - First Global
 
We are about see this kind of thing happen from now on…for about a couple of weeks, that is…
 
Markets globally will rally. We give it 10-15%. And everything else will stage their own little counter-trend cameos…
 
The Dollar will cede ground…temporarily. Talk will re-emerge as to how the Dollar is a doomed currency. Don't take this kind of stuff too seriously. The Dollar's status as a doomed currency has been put on hold for a while to come.
 
The Emerging Markets will come back strongly (these days, that's a 10-15% move over a few days), as the US Dollar weakens.
 
The Commodity Pack will also stir to life. Oil should put on five bucks or so. Gold will star in this sequel. Industrial commodities? Here, unfortunately, there's not much hope.
 
US 10-Years should retreat a bit. They have been the FG Family's Long trade of the year, but given that they have been on a tear pretty much all year, they will take a small breather.
 
In short, the market's are going to get out of jail. On a short parole.
So what should all the folks out on parole do?
 
Like all smart people out on parole, they should jump parole. Yes, you heard it right. Just beat it.
Get the hell out. Scram.
 
Because, the next couple of months are going to be terrible for global equities and commodities.
 
Could possibly rival October.
 
Markets could easily tumble 20% and more. Remember, the world's aggregate equity markets are about 20% away from their 2003 lows. Bet on those lows being breached, post this parole.
 
The malicious genie is out of the bottle and is out of control. And it's coming to get you this Christmas.


Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 29/Nov/2008 at 9:39am
Originally posted by Circuit

Getting out of jail on parole…for a couple of weeks - First Global


These people have innovative analogies to say the least.

And then, the global market will be serving 5~10 years Rigorous Imprisonment?

So, the much beloved bull-phase word conviction is getting replaced by 'convicted'.




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Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards


Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 30/Nov/2008 at 4:08pm
Now see who's putting the boot in!
But not all value investors are gung-ho about valuations. “I am staying away from this market. I have stayed away from it since 2004. I am keeping 70 per cent of my assets in cash and the balance in stocks. There is going to be a big change of the regime. Capitalism will not be the same again. The notion of having free markets may cease to exist,” says octogenarian Chandrakant Sampat, a well-known investor with a sizeable following in the investment fraternity. He believes that value can only emerge if there is capital formation across economies and they are able to earn more than the current cost of capital.


Et tu?

http://businesstoday.digitaltoday.in/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&issueid=44&id=8432&Itemid=1&sectionid=1 - Source




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Posted By: kumardiwesh
Date Posted: 30/Nov/2008 at 9:22pm
I wonder how much money one would make if he/she knew even a fraction of what Shankar Sharma knows.
I also wonder how much money Shankar Sharma has made.

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"History does not tell you the probability of future financial things happening" - Warren Buffett


Posted By: PrashantS
Date Posted: 30/Nov/2008 at 11:27pm
plenty ...sometimes in a bear market fundamental ideas become funny mental ideas ...but then one has to be an alrounder to play the game ...the assumption that market always move up is wrong...


Posted By: Vivek Sukhani
Date Posted: 30/Nov/2008 at 12:31pm
One wrong thing which i have said in these pundits is that when they get it correct, they try to talk too much and pursue their ego and glory too much, and so much so, that this pursuit in itself sows the seed of their ultimately fall, and when it germinates, the pundits become the most ridiculed.
 
Somehow, they dont know how to retire gracefully.....its better to end correct rather than end with a blot. Shankar Sharma has had a dream run but it doesnt take long for dream-runs to end up as ultimate nightmares. I believe he should have called it the day......but he's trying to do a Houdini over and over again.
 
Anyone who has been long in markets would understand that it takes a good bit of destiny to make money here. Knowledge can make you correct, but for that correctness to fructify, you need ample doses of destiny.
 
Unfortunately, people toy with destiny for too long thinking their fate curve will be an upward sloping curve. Doesnt happen it that ways......
 
And by the way, what does global equities mean to us???? Most of us are individual stock pickers. And its better to remind ourselves that not all stocks bottom at the same time with the markets.
 
So, Nifty may bottom at 1900, but if I am in a sucker, the bottom may continue to be bottomer and bottomer.....
 
Kahin Sharmaji ko nazaar na lag jaye..........
 
 
 
 


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Jai Guru!!!


Posted By: Circuit
Date Posted: 03/Dec/2008 at 10:38am

Sharma Ji ki sunoh...

http://www.moneycontrol.com/india/news/market-outlook/see-20-30-sell-offmkts3-4-months-shankar-sharma/369272 - See 20-30% sell-off in mkts in 3-4 months: Shankar Sharma

 

Shankar Sharma, Vice-Chairman and Joint Managing Director, First Global, does not expect the current rally to continue for more than a week. “The market would see a huge sell-off by mid-December, which may continue till January end.”

 

He estimates a 20-30% sell-of in markets during the next 3-4 months and sees a durable rally only after the next fall.

 

Sharma foresees an earnings downtrend in FY10. “We see that fiscal year being worse than FY09 for the markets.”

 

Sharma feels the monetary easing would not boost the market significantly and said the markets may at best rally for 1-2 days. He added that the fiscal package under discussion was too little to make a difference.

 

He believes the elections could compound the current situation and would be a dampener.

Here is a verbatim transcript of the exclusive interview with Shankar Sharma on CNBC-TV18. Also watch the accompanying video.

Q: One of you recent reports was talking a pullback or a temporary pullback in equities. Has that come and gone with that five-six day rally that we saw just a few days back or do you think its still pending?

 

A: We issued this report a week before the last and globally markets did rally about 10-12% from the lows India however, didn’t participate and that’s in partly due to the terror attacks. There’s probably a week more for the rally to go at the highest is what our best estimate is. From the middle of December markets will begin to go back into the realization that this quarter will be an absolute washout quarter for any company anywhere in the world. So whether you take a company in technology or in retail or a company in metals or infrastructure or automobiles or anything almost across the board you will see completely washed out earnings.

 

Markets will not discount this substantial in advance so I reckon somewhere in the middle of the month i.e. this month the market will begin to get a sense of how bad their numbers are going to be and I wouldn’t be surprise if a few major companies across the world came out and issue earnings warnings that they are not going to be able to meet the numbers that they had forecasted for this quarter. Therefore we see market beginning to sell off probably in the middle of December and this could continue I reckon to the middle of January or end of January.

 

This month could be as ugly as October because I do not think the markets have factored in how bad the numbers in this quarter going to be globally. The October sell off was largely due to the Lehman bankruptcy and how it affected the credit market. But the credit market effect on the real economy will now be visible once these numbers begin to come out and we all know anecdotally how bad numbers in India will be for large industries and how bad they will be for many international companies. So I think the rally probably has a few days to go but beyond that it will be very brave to conjecture as the rally continues.                 

 

Q: What is your sense of how ugly it could get in December-January? Do you think it is a revisit of the October lows or could it get worse than that?

 

A: India is pretty close to that not on the intra-day basis but on a closing basis. We are about 7-8% away from the lows that we saw recently. So the October lows have gone on a closing basis. Looking at the way the world is shaping up, I wouldn’t be surprised if markets witnesses a 20-30% sell off in the next couple of months.

 

That leads me to believe the markets will probably see a more durable rally because one of the strange things about this bear market has been that the rallies have not been durable, they haven’t even lasted for 30-45 days, they are over in 5-10 or 15 days.

 

A durable rally will probably succeed a pretty severe fall which begins in the next few days time.

 

So that is the way we think the markets are set up. They have not fully discounted the bad numbers anywhere in the world. Analysts’ estimates are still way too high and I think this quarter will knock some sense into all those numbers.

 

Q: In the short-term, how high would you rate the chances that the market actually settles into a range is very boring for the next few weeks does nothing?

 

A: I don’t think any range has lasted more than a few days. The markets have been very strongly trending markets this year as they were in the last four-five years. The trading ranges have been in consolidation phases before markets breakout in whatever direction they have been trading in.

 

So when there was a bull market, the consolidations were very short. There were very sharp, short pullbacks and then markets would continue going up. This time the pullbacks while they may not have been that sharp, there have been few pullbacks of a few days duration and then they continue going down.

 

So I don’t think there is any trading range or any such situation developing at all. Merely because the markets don’t do much for three days, it starts to build theories that it is in a trading range but I don’t think that is a real possibility.

 

Q: There is the promise of course now of fiscal action and monetary action coming together. How much does that translate into for the market in real terms you think?

 

A: Maybe a day’s rally, maybe two days. One should remember this is like a Morphine shot you need greater and greater Morphine shots in order to kill the pain and that is the way this thing works.

 

The first one will lead to greater euphoria and each successive injection whether it is monetary or fiscal – in economics they call it the Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility and that is the way markets look at such stimuli packages.

 

So globally, the first ones (packages) did a lot of good in terms of market action and then successively markets say that nothing is working and it is just another stimulus package.

 

In India we haven’t seen anything on the fiscal side yet. So that may help for a couple of days maybe three days but it is just very little – USD 10 billion packages is nothing.

 

I don’t think it conveys a very good picture to the world that our neighbour is putting up a USD 550 billion package and here we are announcing a USD 10 billion package. It doesn’t seem right. They may as well not announce and on a subterranean basis — keep doing what you are doing on a slightly accelerated basis — why make a big song and dance about something which is like 2% of what China is doing? So it’s better not talk about it.

 

 

Q: How are you reading 2009 now if there is a big fall or big leg down coming around the January numbers after that how do you see the rest of 2009?

 

A: The numbers in FY10 will be substantially worse. The slowdown has accelerated post the middle of the calendar year 2009. So we have had more or less five-six months of reasonable earnings growth and reasonable GDP (Gross Domestic Product) growth coming and that’s not going to be replicable for the rest of the financial year and the calendar year of 2009. Our sense if FY10 will be definitely a down year in terms of earnings for India. I cannot see which sector will lead earnings growth. On an aggregate basis there might be a few sectors which will deliver positive earnings growth but you will not see the entire market deliver that largely because big companies like Reliance or the auto pack or the metal pack none of those companies are going to have earnings growth. You can only debate how much lower the earnings will go but growth is going to be very dim for a large part of the market. Some of the companies like telecom may grow but that’s not going to be enough to offset the decline in earnings we see from a lot of the cyclical companies a lot of infrastructure companies will not show you growth.

 

So I am pretty certain and its early days to start making definitive forecast in FY10 but our take is you will definitely see a down earnings in FY10. Globally, it will be pretty much the same case; corporate earnings that was strong for last five years will be decimated. Sector wise; semiconductors are hurting, retail is hurting, banks are obviously gone.

 

The world’s earnings composition also changes in every phase of a bull market. The last five years globally the market was driven largely by the commodity cyclical and they became large part of the indexes worldwide and they became even larger part of earnings growth worldwide. Now that sector is gone, oil is at USD 45/bbl and it can easily hit USD 20 print in the next six-eight months time. Exxon Mobil, iron ore or steel were all the big drivers of earnings growth but those are not going to come back for many years in terms of earnings growth.

You might well see a situation where they might make losses 12 months from now because it is our view that commodity prices will breach the lows of 2002. I am talking about the absolute commodity prices, which means that the stocks of those commodities so whether it is BHP Billiton, Rio Tinto or Exxon Mobil, Companhia Vale do Rio Doce (CVRD) or Indian metal companies should all trade lower than their prices of 2002-03, in terms of the absolute stock price. When the commodity price breaches the lows of 2002 the stocks of those companies will trade even lower because these companies have upped their risk in the last five years. They have gone and made acquisitions, they have leveraged their balance sheets up. Rio Tinto has got USD 46 billion of debt and that is a lot of debt built up in the last few years and about USD 8-10 billion is coming due in the next 12 months time.

 

These companies are far riskier than they were at the trough of the commodity cycle. So when you hit another trough, these stocks will go down even lower and therefore the earnings will obviously be linked to the trough. I don’t see how that earnings growth is going to be replicable out of the same pack. So may be some other pack has to emerge and it is too early in this bear market to start talking of the sector, which balances out the negatives of the commodity cyclical.     

 

Q: At the very start of the conversation, you mentioned autos, what would you do with that whole pocket?

 

A: Autos are symptomatic of what the real problems are. So, as far as the real economy is concerned, these numbers are mind-bogglingly terrible numbers and I don’t see how this thing will revive or turnaround that quickly.

 

Companies like a Hero Honda or a Maruti don’t have much leverage. They are not going to be in a financial stress if the market continues to be as bad as it is. But you have other leveraged auto companies and I just fear that leverage with these kind of poor numbers, interest cost, interest burden none of those things are a good cocktail. They are a very lethal cocktail and the sector is in deep strife.

 

Q: There is one view which is the optimistic view that maybe June-July 2009 onwards as we get into Q2 or Q3 FY10, you see the economy rebounding in a bit or earnings probably hitting some kind of a trough and the markets probably starts some kind of a recovery. Is that too optimistic a view in your eyes?

 

A: I do not think that’s too optimistic. It only depends on what the trough is and what the trough for the market is. If the market goes to 5,000 and rebounds to 8,000 or 9,000 which is where we are now would you call that a rebound or would you call that as nothing move on point to point basis. So all of this will depend on where we are at that point in time when the so-called recovery starts. I am not even sure it will be that easy to achieve because we are still in the deceleration mode and economies do not necessarily have that big swings in their growth rates as corporate earnings do.  It’s like a super tanker; they will start climbing and they will start coming down. They can go down for 18 months or 24 months before maybe another leg of the upstream in GDP growth starts.

 

But what I don’t think people are getting especially in India is how serious this whole global problem is. Across the world in every single country people have understood the depth of the problem and they understand the contours and magnitude of the problem the world facing is. Here we are still living in la-la land. We still do not understand that this has nothing to do with India. There is huge global unwinding going on, it’s an unwinding of the excesses build over many decades and to say that those excesses can be purged and now the excess are being purged in fact you are putting excesses upon excesses. Governments are printing money. So basically you are borrowing from the people to give it to private hands.

 

There is no equity left in the world; you cannot build Debt Empire without having equity and the only people in the world who have any equity or the sovereign wealthy fund from West Asia and with oil at USD 45/bbl their fiscal balances are just going to go because the last man standing was Saudi. Saudi Arabia needed USD 50/bbl to balance their book. At USD 45/bbl they have also gone, Russia went at USD 65-70/bbl. In most other countries the cost of production was far higher and their quality of crude was lower. Therefore, they need higher crude prices for them to break even.

 

You are talking about a huge global problem. This is not a garden variety walk in the part recession. So there no point talking about Tata Steel or Bharti or Reliance Industries or any of our stalwart companies when there is such a huge problem across the world. I have been trying to figure out what’s the end game to this and I have been speaking to a lot of very intelligent folks across the world in the last three-four months, meeting them as well and nobody can figure out where the light at the end of this tunnel is. So India is a small part of whole equation its not the whole jigsaw puzzle.

 

Just looking at the way the world is going, you have pretty much the entire world in recession now. Looking at the China output numbers, looking at India CMIE (Centre for Monitoring Indian Economy), everything is pointing to a contraction of industrial activity. To hold out hope that the markets will have a great second half of 2009, lets get through 2008 first, lets get through the next three months of 2009 first and we will start worrying about 2009 end. There are plenty of more things to worry about now than to worry about second half of 2009.      



Posted By: stockaddict
Date Posted: 04/Dec/2008 at 12:50pm
He's become India's own 'Dr Doom' !


Posted By: Circuit
Date Posted: 04/Dec/2008 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by stockaddict

He's become India's own 'Dr Doom' !
 
Reality is that human (read investor) mind likes to listen to only postive (read rosy) news.
 
Anybody with courage to talk reality though negative is named "Mr Doom"
 
This is not to say Shakar Bhai is my favorite analyst, but I mostly agree with his views.


Posted By: stockaddict
Date Posted: 04/Dec/2008 at 2:08pm
Agreed! Much of the flak he's been getting of late is undeserved, and the reason for that is because he's been negetive on the markets(rightly so).
I did not us 'Dr Doom' in a negetive sense but compared him to the real "Dr Doom'. Shankar has been a better analyst to follow than Jhunjhunwala and Samir Arora in last one year at least.


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 04/Dec/2008 at 2:30pm
That is if the period for evaluation is one year.Big%20smile

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'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: catchsudipto
Date Posted: 04/Dec/2008 at 4:21pm
This time He will be wrong. On the other hand market might rally till Feb2009 with target of 11600 or 12800 or 14400. 

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Make your Life as simple as possible.


Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 04/Dec/2008 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by catchsudipto

This time He will be wrong. On the other hand market might rally till Feb2009 with target of 11600 or 12800 or 14400. 


In some religions, references to deities are capitalised Wink


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Posted By: stockaddict
Date Posted: 04/Dec/2008 at 6:52pm
Originally posted by basant

That is if the period for evaluation is one year.Big%20smile
 
I have already mentioned 'in the last one year'.
 
However we got to accept that most stocks have fallen 60-90% and that means investors have been set back by years, and in some stocks they may never recover. Therefore whether it is jhunjhunwala, Samir Arora or Shankar sharma, Take public advice with a pinch of salt.(Jhunjhunwala  brags about the bull market all the time but one has to remember he has made his tons of money and can jolly well afford to lose it, ordinary investor may not be able to afford the same)


Posted By: stockaddict
Date Posted: 04/Dec/2008 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by catchsudipto

This time He will be wrong. On the other hand market might rally till Feb2009 with target of 11600 or 12800 or 14400. 
 
You are in to astrology or something?


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 04/Dec/2008 at 7:43pm
There was no invitation to invest in January 2008 or in April 2003. Anyone who bought stocks with fresh money declining to invest 5 years back when stocks were 70%-90% cheaper should take some part of the blame on himself.
 
Just as now everyone is being scared out of his wits when it comes to investing 2003 was no different. I used to watch the same business channels then also.
 
Finally there are vested interests on the long and short side as well,
 


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'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: stockaddict
Date Posted: 04/Dec/2008 at 8:13pm
I agree with you that late entrants have to take not some but most of the blame. But the point I am making is that these guys make very high sounding statements and predictions publicly and people blindly follow them not knowing the consequences. All of them have vested interests, there are no holy cows here but some sort of restrictions need be placed on such people doling out advice on news channels and other media.


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 04/Dec/2008 at 8:59pm
 But the point I am making is that these guys make very high sounding statements and predictions publicly and people blindly follow them not knowing the consequences.
 
That is the person's fault. What we need to see is whether the advice is manipulative for example Mathew Easow was charged with selling Satyam when he was actually recommending abuy on it. Similarily Rakesh or Samir might have gone down 90% on some of their stocks but as long as they have their money where their mouth is we cannnot hold them responsible.
 
After all everyone is entitled to be wrong in this market. we all make judgemental errors in the markets.
 
I do not know how many of the people here are aware that Shankar Sharma and his company raised the bear case alarm in October 2005 also almost as aggressively as they are doing it now. So even if someone had taken their call they would have disinvested at 7500-8000 and there where we are now.
 
This firm also has the glorious distinction of having placed HFCL shares to a group of FIIs that they advice!
 
This is also an interesting link on his stock picking skills!!!
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2003/09/11/stories/2003091102151300.htm - http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2003/09/11/stories/2003091102151300.htm
 


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'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: arunshah2k
Date Posted: 04/Dec/2008 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by catchsudipto

This time He will be wrong. On the other hand market might rally till Feb2009 with target of 11600 or 12800 or 14400. 


Everything will be clear in next 15-30 days. Lets see if Shankar gets right this time also.

Since we haven't sold till now, and have hold during the slide from 21000 to 8000, I assume another 20-30% wont make any more difference.


Posted By: romanov
Date Posted: 04/Dec/2008 at 10:23pm
Once upon a time there was a Mithai wala ,he opened a new shop.To attract customers he wrote on his shop following:
"Yahan bahut Swatheest Mithai milti hai"..His business prospered.
 
Than one day one of the analyst came and said "bhai is statement mai yahan likhne ki kya jaroorat hai it is obvious ki Mithai ki dukan pe mithai hi mlegi"
 
Listening to him,the shopkeeper changed the statement to
bahut Swatheest Mithai milti hai".."
 
Second analyst came and said "What you have written does not create confidence,you have such a big good shop what's the use of adding word Bahut"
 
Listening to him the shopkeeper changed the sign to
"Swatheest Mithai milti hai"
 
Now came another distuingeshed analyst and siad "bhai,mithai ki dukan hai ..acchi chal rahi hai obvious si baat hai ki mithai swatheest hai..what's the use of this extra word"
 
Unfortunately,shopkeeper was scared that people might think he does not have confidence in his own product he changed the sign to
"Mithai milti hai"
 
Than came an international analyst and commented "you should be precise and short.that makes it beautifull"
 
Listening to him..the poor soul decided to change the sign to "Mithai hai"
 
If this was not the end of his agony  ...somebody followed up and said boss'...Mithai hai looks cheap ,remove the word hai.and may be your shop will become branded as the word Mithai in itself sounds very pleasent to ears ..
Already succumbed to so many suggestions the shopkeeper went further and renamed the shop to "Mithai"....
 
I would have loved to end the story here...but unfortunately  it did not stop here....
 
In the meantime one of savvy market analyst came up,after doing an extensive survey of the market  said to shopkeeper..."It always pays to give a detailed description of your shop and highlight what you are all about...Mithai..it does not sound convincing for any one.....you should write it in more detail..  something like "yahan bahut Swatheest Mithai milti hai"...
 
No clues for guessing the moral of the story....everybody has his own point of view..and correct in some point of way..what is important is to listen to all the advice before making a informed decision and not after making the decison. 
 
 
 


Posted By: master
Date Posted: 04/Dec/2008 at 11:02pm
Originally posted by basant

This firm also has the glorious distinction of having placed HFCL shares to...
 
Tehelka & hfcl are part of wrong reasons. But we need to give credit where it is due. At a time when top honchos were busy releasing $200 crude reports, this was the man who said below 50 as the year-end target. This is some assessment. Without much doubt, 2008 has belonged to him.
 


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Someone’s sitting in shade today because someone planted a tree long time ago.


Posted By: kumardiwesh
Date Posted: 04/Dec/2008 at 12:13pm
Yeah...you can imagine how bad a year 2008 has been when it belongs to people like SS.

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"History does not tell you the probability of future financial things happening" - Warren Buffett


Posted By: arunshah2k
Date Posted: 04/Dec/2008 at 8:14am
Originally posted by master

Originally posted by basant

This firm also has the glorious distinction of having placed HFCL shares to...
 
Tehelka & hfcl are part of wrong reasons. But we need to give credit where it is due. At a time when top honchos were busy releasing $200 crude reports, this was the man who said below 50 as the year-end target. This is some assessment. Without much doubt, 2008 has belonged to him.
 


Yes, some of his recent statements have lots of logic in them.

His main rationale for markets going down by 20-30% is about earnings slowdown/decline. He feels how bad the earnings are going to be for next 1 year has not been fully comprehended by markets and other analysts. Post Oct-Dec quarter results, markets will start to realize how worse things will become in next 1 year.




Posted By: catchsudipto
Date Posted: 04/Dec/2008 at 9:06am
You are in to astrology or something?
-----------------------------------------------------

No not in astrology. But market bottom ( at 7695) might be already in place. Infact we corrected 61.8% (at 8113) of 30 years rally since 1978. So now we might have a multi-months rally from now onwards. Lets keep our finger crossed.
 
 Also at last USA acknowledged that they are in recession since Dec 2007. Dow topped out in Oct 2007. A country comes out of recession in 13th month normally (history suggest that). It might extend also but  lets hope for the Best. Thumbs%20Up


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Make your Life as simple as possible.


Posted By: PrashantS
Date Posted: 04/Dec/2008 at 9:13am
well on a serious note there are times when these things have failed ...fear has not set in and we havent got a capitulation ...so again assuming a bottom is not the right thing...we are in a time when history is being made..btw the low was 7695


Posted By: catchsudipto
Date Posted: 04/Dec/2008 at 9:39am
btw the low was 7695

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Yes thanks


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Make your Life as simple as possible.


Posted By: stockaddict
Date Posted: 04/Dec/2008 at 9:58am
Originally posted by arunshah2k

Originally posted by master

Originally posted by basant

This firm also has the glorious distinction of having placed HFCL shares to...
 
Tehelka & hfcl are part of wrong reasons. But we need to give credit where it is due. At a time when top honchos were busy releasing $200 crude reports, this was the man who said below 50 as the year-end target. This is some assessment. Without much doubt, 2008 has belonged to him.
 


Yes, some of his recent statements have lots of logic in them.

His main rationale for markets going down by 20-30% is about earnings slowdown/decline. He feels how bad the earnings are going to be for next 1 year has not been fully comprehended by markets and other analysts. Post Oct-Dec quarter results, markets will start to realize how worse things will become in next 1 year.


 
Well to me personally Shankar Sharma comes across as a more resonable guy, Jhunjhunwala seems too much intoxicated by the money he's made and while he may have and will do well for himself lay investors need not pay heed to his all the time bullish talk. As far as Shankar's predictions go, he may be proven wrong but take it in proper perspective. He isn't advicing you to trade short, it should be taken more as a caution to do due diligence before putting in money.


Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 05/Dec/2008 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by PrashantS

...fear has not set in and we havent got a capitulation....


Somehow I fear this, as I'm not yet really fearful.

Originally posted by PrashantS

...we are in a time when history is being made..


Unfortunately, history is being made in such way that it's changing geography of many market participants permanently.




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Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards


Posted By: paragdesai
Date Posted: 05/Dec/2008 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by kulman

 
Unfortunately, history is being made in such way that it's changing geography of many market participants permanently.

 
I think now we have to make daily diary of our experiences of stock market behaviour so same can be use to published best selling book in future as Great 2008 market crash. LOL


Posted By: tigershark
Date Posted: 05/Dec/2008 at 9:29pm
you r already doing that on ted.

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understanding both the power of compound return and the difficulty getting it is the heart and soul of understanding a lot of things


Posted By: furkanalam
Date Posted: 11/Dec/2008 at 3:12pm
Shankar Sharma in his latest comments has called all Long Term Investors as "RUBBISH"....
 
He thinks that the long term investors are fools and they never make money.....According to him he does not understand Warren Buffet style of investing and he only believes in his style....
 
What a great IDIOT this guy is....just read his answers in Dalal Street Magazine and you will understand....


Posted By: karthikr80
Date Posted: 11/Dec/2008 at 3:57pm
What is his style :)
anyway we cant call him a fool b'cos whatever technique he follows may have worked for him.
Ultimately follow what makes most sense for you and what makes most money for u


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karthik


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 11/Dec/2008 at 4:24pm
  He think that the long term investors are fools and they never make money
 
Maybe he is talking from his personal experience. How can he pass such a bizzare sweeping comment otherwise?
 


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'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: kumardiwesh
Date Posted: 11/Dec/2008 at 4:41pm
I still wonder why doesn't float a fund if he's convinced.
Anyway, it's difficult to have faith in people who make sweeping statements, even if they may be right.

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"History does not tell you the probability of future financial things happening" - Warren Buffett


Posted By: arunshah2k
Date Posted: 11/Dec/2008 at 5:49pm
Shankar Sharma's case is classic example of "Sher Aaya, Sher Aaya".

Remember the story about a boy shouting "Sher Aaya, Sher Aaya" and the villagers come to save the boy and his sheep, but it turned out to hoax. This happened for 3 times and when the real Sher came, the villages though to be a hoax and no one came to save him.

I think same is the case with Shankar Sharma. He kept on shouting "bear" many times, and every time it turned out to be hoax. When the real bear came no one listened to him, else one could have made a killing by shorting. Shocked


Posted By: smartcat
Date Posted: 11/Dec/2008 at 5:58pm
hahaha nice analogy.
 
Coming to "long term investing is rubbish bit", majority of companies don't survive for a long term like, say 20 - 30 years. They wilt and fade away after a few years. So it probably makes sense to move your money from one emerging company to another - although that is easier said than done.


Posted By: kulman
Date Posted: 11/Dec/2008 at 6:03pm
Originally posted by smartcat

So it probably makes sense to move your money from one emerging company to another - although that is easier said than done.


Yeah true.

On second thoughts, it is easier done if an investor falls prey to newer emerging themes smartly presented by visionary promoters in connivance with smart iBankers.






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Life can only be understood backwards—but it must be lived forwards


Posted By: basant
Date Posted: 11/Dec/2008 at 7:45pm
Originally posted by arunshah2k

Shankar Sharma's case is classic example of "Sher Aaya, Sher Aaya".

Remember the story about a boy shouting "Sher Aaya, Sher Aaya" and the villagers come to save the boy and his sheep, but it turned out to hoax. This happened for 3 times and when the real Sher came, the villages though to be a hoax and no one came to save him.

I think same is the case with Shankar Sharma. He kept on shouting "bear" many times, and every time it turned out to be hoax. When the real bear came no one listened to him, else one could have made a killing by shorting. Shocked
 
If you are consistent some day you will be right!!!
 
 


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'The Thoughtful Investor: A Journey to Financial Freedom Through Stock Market Investing' - A Book on Equity Investing especially for Indian Investors. Book your copy now: www.thethoughtfulinvestor.in


Posted By: kanagala
Date Posted: 11/Dec/2008 at 10:25pm
Even a broken clock is right twice a day

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While one person hesitates because he feels inferior, the other is busy making mistakes and becoming superior.


Posted By: kaushalchawla
Date Posted: 11/Dec/2008 at 10:52pm
Originally posted by basant

  He think that the long term investors are fools and they never make money
 
Maybe he is talking from his personal experience. How can he pass such a bizzare sweeping comment otherwise?
 
 
Maybe, he is saying that because over a long term, hardly few companies perform and outperform. I think most of the companies, sooner or later fall into oblivion......
 
Hardly a few companies last for ever......I was reading an article long time back where the DOW's component companies were being compared about 25-30 yrs ago to today's companies in DOW......and i think it only had 1 or 2 companies were still in the index or something of that sort......clearly specifying hardly few companies keep their strong position over 20-30 yrs.....also think about Enron, worldcom, bear sterns etc.
 
Now identifying such companies is very tricky and piece of luck as well.....Most of us are not very very good at doing this.....hence Buffett is the king.
 
Also remember, some of the good companies are back to their 2004/5 valuations....so no money made for anyone who invested in these times for 3/4 yrs......
 
Lot of random thoughts Smile
 


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Warm Regards,
Kaushal


Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 11/Dec/2008 at 11:02pm
Originally posted by kaushalchawla

......I was reading an article long time back where the DOW's component companies were being compared about 25-30 yrs ago to today's companies in DOW......and i think it only had 1 or 2 companies were still in the index or something of that sort......


Now that you mention this point, even I remeber reading that the present Dow and that of some decades ago has few survivors.

Also, why bother with the Dow. Even if we look at the much younger Sensex, we'll see the difference!


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Posted By: Hitesh Shah
Date Posted: 11/Dec/2008 at 11:09pm
Just for fun: Data from http://bseindia.com/about/abindices/bse30.asp#rep - BSE

History of Replacement of Scrips in SENSEX

Date

Outgoing Scrips

Replaced by

01.01.1986

Bombay Burmah

Voltas

 

Asian Cables

Peico

 

Crompton Greaves

Premier Auto.

 

Scinda

G.E.Shipping

     

03.08.1992

Zenith Ltd.

Bharat Forge

     

19.08.1996

Ballarpur Inds.

Arvind Mills

 

Bharat Forge

Bajaj Auto

 

Bombay Dyeing

BHEL

 

Ceat Tyres

BSES

 

Century Text.

Colgate

 

GSFC

Guj. Amb. Cement

 

Hind. Motors

HPCL

 

Indian Organic

ICICI

 

Indian Rayon

IDBI

 

Kirloskar Cummins

IPCL

 

Mukand Iron

MTNL

 

Phlips

Ranbaxy Lab.

 

Premier Auto

State Bank of India

 

Siemens

Steel Authority of India

 

Voltas

Tata Chem

     

16.11.1998

Arvind Mills

Castrol

 

G. E. Shipping

Infosys Technologies

 

IPCL

NIIT Ltd.

 

Steel Authority of India

Novartis

     

10.04.2000

I.D.B.I

Dr. Reddy's Laboratories

 

Indian Hotels

Reliance Petroleum

 

Tata Chem

Satyam Computers

 

Tata Power

Zee Telefilms

     

08.01.2001

Novartis

Cipla Ltd.

     

07.01.2002

NIIT Ltd.

HCL Technologies

 

Mahindra & Mahindra

Hero Honda Motors Ltd.

     

31.05.2002

ICICI Ltd.

ICICI Bank Ltd.

     

10.10.2002

Reliance Petroleum Ltd.

HDFC Ltd.

     

10.11.2003

Castrol India Ltd.

Bharti-Tele-Ventures Ltd.

 

Colgate Palomive (India) Ltd.

HDFC Bank Ltd.

 

Glaxo Smithkline Pharma. Ltd.

ONGC Ltd.

 

HCL Technologies Ltd.

Tata Power Company Ltd.

 

Nestle (India) Ltd.

Wipro Ltd.

     

19.05.2004

Larsen & Toubro Ltd.

Maruti Udyog Ltd.

     

27.09.2004

Mahanagar Telephone Nigam Ltd.

Larsen & Toubro Ltd.

     

06.06.2005

Hindustan Petroleum Corp Ltd.

National Thermal Power Corpn. Ltd.


Zee Telefilms Ltd.

Tata Consultancy Services Ltd.

     

12.06.2006

Tata Power Ltd.

Reliance Communiation Ventures Ltd.

     

09.07.2007

Hero Honda Motors Ltd.

Mahindra & Mahindra Ltd.

     

19.11.2007

Dr. Reddy's Laboratories Ltd.

DLF Ltd.

     

14.03.2008

Bajaj Auto Ltd.

Jaiprakash Associates Ltd.

     

28.07.2008

Ambuja Cements Ltd.

Sterlite Industries Ltd.


Cipla Ltd.

Tata Power Co. Ltd.









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Posted By: Vivek Sukhani
Date Posted: 11/Dec/2008 at 11:30pm
Originally posted by furkanalam

Shankar Sharma in his latest comments has called all Long Term Investors as "RUBBISH"....
 
He thinks that the long term investors are fools and they never make money.....According to him he does not understand Warren Buffet style of investing and he only believes in his style....
 
What a great IDIOT this guy is....just read his answers in Dalal Street Magazine and you will understand....
 
Can you send the link where he has said so.........
 
He has no clue what he's talking about. Trust you me, if I meet him anywhere, I will use such kinda slangs that will put a street fighter to shame.....


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Jai Guru!!!


Posted By: gregarious75
Date Posted: 11/Dec/2008 at 6:33am
Originally posted by Vivek Sukhani

Originally posted by furkanalam

Shankar Sharma in his latest comments has called all Long Term Investors as "RUBBISH"....
 
He thinks that the long term investors are fools and they never make money.....According to him he does not understand Warren Buffet style of investing and he only believes in his style....
 
What a great IDIOT this guy is....just read his answers in Dalal Street Magazine and you will understand....
 
Can you send the link where he has said so.........
 
He has no clue what he's talking about. Trust you me, if I meet him anywhere, I will use such kinda slangs that will put a street fighter to shame.....
 
There's no single GUT (Grand Unified Theory) of the stock market just as there is none (at least so far) for the phenomena in Universe.
 
What matters is what works for each individual.


Posted By: Vivek Sukhani
Date Posted: 11/Dec/2008 at 8:20am
Originally posted by gregarious75

Originally posted by Vivek Sukhani

Originally posted by furkanalam

Shankar Sharma in his latest comments has called all Long Term Investors as "RUBBISH"....
 
He thinks that the long term investors are fools and they never make money.....According to him he does not understand Warren Buffet style of investing and he only believes in his style....
 
What a great IDIOT this guy is....just read his answers in Dalal Street Magazine and you will understand....
 
Can you send the link where he has said so.........
 
He has no clue what he's talking about. Trust you me, if I meet him anywhere, I will use such kinda slangs that will put a street fighter to shame.....
 
There's no single GUT (Grand Unified Theory) of the stock market just as there is none (at least so far) for the phenomena in Universe.
 
What matters is what works for each individual.
 
Sure, but that doesnt give him any right to abuse a particular methodology.
 
In this market, there are many players participating in various ways. And none of them are good-for-all or bad-for-all to be tagged like this......
 
The problem with such buy-and-never-sell investors is that, firstly, they are too unique to be located and secondly, most of them, by nature, are way too reserved to reply to such statements. But, that doesnt make them unsuccessful in any manner.
 
Infact, the kind of reputation which they enjoy is beyond imagination. They are most-tracked and most widely respected. And the best part is, they get that respect even in bad times as well. Sure, some may pin-point an occasional lapse, but in a wider community of investors, they always stand very tall.
 
However, people should understand its not everybody's cup of tea to become like this. Firstly, it takes good deal of passion to be so devoted. Secondly, it takes good deal of money to continue to remain invested in those times. And thirdly, it takes time to prove yourself.  
 
Now, dont mistake me to be a Buffett-fan. Infact, I dont subscibe to his methodology at all. yet, I believe no one has any right to dis-respect him like this. Sure, we have differences, but then none of us can doubt that his passion level is almost unparallel. On any given day, he deserves respect for providing the bigger world a set of directions which can enable them to build long-term wealth building........
 
 


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Jai Guru!!!


Posted By: furkanalam
Date Posted: 12/Dec/2008 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by Vivek Sukhani

Originally posted by furkanalam

Shankar Sharma in his latest comments has called all Long Term Investors as "RUBBISH"....
 
He thinks that the long term investors are fools and they never make money.....According to him he does not understand Warren Buffet style of investing and he only believes in his style....
 
What a great IDIOT this guy is....just read his answers in Dalal Street Magazine and you will understand....
 
Can you send the link where he has said so.........
 
He has no clue what he's talking about. Trust you me, if I meet him anywhere, I will use such kinda slangs that will put a street fighter to shame.....
 
I read this in Dalal Street magazine...latest edition...so no links available as of now....but its a good read....if u read it you will notice how Shankar keeps contradicting himself....


Posted By: PrashantS
Date Posted: 12/Dec/2008 at 5:07pm
Sure, but that doesnt give him any right to abuse a particular methodology.

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there is no one method ...and the outcome matters more than anything



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