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Infinite Computer Solutions Cheap Midcap IT Stock

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Forum Discription: A bried discussion of companies on very specific matters. Normally this is the prelude for further research as always members would be discussing quality companies with good management only
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Printed Date: 27/Apr/2024 at 3:30pm


Topic: Infinite Computer Solutions Cheap Midcap IT Stock
Posted By: TCSer
Subject: Infinite Computer Solutions Cheap Midcap IT Stock
Date Posted: 03/Feb/2010 at 7:27pm
Infinite is Focused on telecom vertical

Has seen stupendous growth over the last 18 months even when the general industry as well as the telecom vertical were not doing well

Infinite Computer Solutions (India), promoted by Sanjay Govil, is a global service provider of infrastructure management, intellectual property (IP) leveraged solutions and IT services, is significantly focused on the telecom vertical. The telecom vertical contributed 59.4% of the revenue for fiscal ended March 2009 (FY 2009) and 54.4% of the revenue in the first half of FY 2010. The other focus industry verticals include media, technology, manufacturing and healthcare.

Strengths

* The company has seen good growth over the last 18 months on the back of change in revenue mix. For FY 2009, the operating revenue grew 44% over FY 2008 and for H1 FY 2010, the company reported 65% of FY 2009 revenue. The company has moved away from low margin business to core higher margin business. In FY 2006, Application Development & Maintenance (ADM) contributed 80% of revenue. This has come down to 61% in FY 2009, whereas the share of remote infrastructure management services increased from 6% to 8%, testing services from 4% to 11%, and IP leverage services from 8% to 17%.

* The operating margins improved from 4.3% in FY 2007 to 11.9% in FY 2009 and further to 18% in H1 FY2010. The company, which was predominantly an onsite company, has since seen the level of offshore increase from 10% in FY 2006 to 25% in FY 2009 and further up to 32% in H1 FY 2010. The share of non-linear revenue has also increased, thereby boosting margins. The billing has changed towards fixed price and revenue sharing from time & material (T&M). T&M has decreased from 81% in FY 2006 to 51%, whereas fixed price has improved from 19% to 43% and revenue sharing to 6%.



Today on listing day  T Rowe Price the famous American investing giant purchased nearly 18 Lacs shares@ 197 of Infinite Computer Solutions from NSE n BSE.So the second litmus test of purchase by a big FII is pased after the Ist litmus test of heavy oversubscription.They already had purchased 3 lacs shares as anchor investors.Besides them Carlson fund,Citi,Bharti axa,Reliance MF,Alden,CS & Lloyd George had purchased nearly 17 lacs shares as anchor investors.

So its a potential blue chip with expected EPS of 20 in march 2010 & 26 in March 2011 available very cheap.I bought some more shares in addition to the allotment from IPO.



Replies:
Posted By: TCSer
Date Posted: 04/Feb/2010 at 2:15pm
Making new highs in a  falling market.
 
Valuations even now are damn attractive


Posted By: experteye
Date Posted: 05/Feb/2010 at 3:09pm
It is highly valued stocks. sure multibagger of future.1000 in due course of time,Wink looking at long term fundamental of the company.

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more risk,more profit but have a vision before taking risk,itis all about investment in equities market.


Posted By: Jaishrikrishna
Date Posted: 05/Feb/2010 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by experteye

It is highly valued stocks. sure multibagger of future.1000 in due course of time,Wink looking at long term fundamental of the company.


So infinite computers will produce infinite money also.


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Don't Buy and Hold, Buy and Homework / Fish see the bait,but not the hook; Men see the profit, but not the peril.


Posted By: hit2710
Date Posted: 05/Feb/2010 at 6:35pm
Originally posted by TCSer


So its a potential blue chip with expected EPS of 20 in march 2010 & 26 in March 2011 available very cheap


How does it stack up with industry leaders? I assume tulip tele is a big player here.

And how does this space compare with RIM with players like adsl and omnitech?

Omnitech seems to be available cheap and so also seems adsl



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Stockmarket is a weird place. For every person who buys a stock there is a person who sells it and both think they are very smart.


Posted By: TCSer
Date Posted: 05/Feb/2010 at 6:48pm
Infinite is a typical midcap software exporter having a turnover in range of 600 crores which is decent unlike other players mentioned by you which are mostly domestic players .Margins are much lower in domestic n moreover they are taxable as well.

This years profit will be in the range of 85 crores & next year maybe 130 crores implying even a higher EPS for next year The pedigree of the promoter Sanjay Govil n his team is a decent one.They are abunch of IITians & BITS Pilani.The company enjoys enviable longterm relationship with some of the best telecom cos like Verizon which is a big moat for them.
BTW Infinite is also into domestic business to diversify in collaboration with Phoenix system n is expected to bag around 500 crore worth of order shortly in the power sector.


Posted By: TCSer
Date Posted: 05/Feb/2010 at 6:50pm
An Infinite IPO note by HDFC Securities says, “The positives of the issue include company’s experienced management and its demonstrated ability to retain key clients over a long period of time, its efforts to diversify currently concentrated client base and geographical presence, its growing presence in higher margin businesses like infrastructure management services (8% of sales - expected to grow to 24% of total IT services from 15% currently) and IP development services, shift to fixed price contracts (from a low of 19% to 43%, rise in proportion of offshore business from 4% to about 25% over four year period and attractive return ratios. At the issue price of Rs 155 – 165 on consolidated EPS of Rs 10.2 for FY 2009, the P/E works out to 15.1 – 16.1 times. The company has seen a very robust FY 2009 and first half of FY 2010, when the general industry trend was negative to sluggish. Backed by growth in top 10 clients and change in business model, the Company reported 43% growth in operating revenues and 159% jump in net profit for FY2009, For H1FY2010, it has already done 65% of FY2009 revenues and 82% of FY2009 net profit. On annualized basis, FY 2010 diluted annualised consolidated EPS comes to Rs 16.9 and P/E comes down to 9.1 – 9.7 times.”


Posted By: TCSer
Date Posted: 05/Feb/2010 at 6:51pm
Udayan note

They could have come at a better time for the market admittedly and then the pop would have been bigger but it was heavily subscribed, they left a lot on the table assuming they will do Rs 20 odd earnings per share. The stock came at some 8 PE and you do not see too many IT companies doing an initial public offering (IPO) at 8 PE. So they left a lot of value on the table and they should be rewarded for it.

 

So Rs 165 issue in all things being equal kind of a market they should have been at Rs 200 plus because it’s a reasonably sized IT company, Rs 650-700 crore revenue, reasonable pedigree, 18-20% kind of margin so there is no problem with the company as such it seems. So they should have debuted at Rs 200 maybe they will but had they done it a fortnight back, the listing it would have been a certainty to see Rs 200 plus on the screen.





Posted By: TCSer
Date Posted: 05/Feb/2010 at 6:55pm

Nine anchor investors such as T. Rowe Price International Inc., Carlson Fund India, Lloyd George Investment Management (Bermuda) Limited A/C L. G. India Fund and India Plus Fund, Alden Global (Mauritius) Ltd. Credit Suisse (Singapore) Ltd., BATSPL A/C Bharti Axa Equity Fund, Reliance Capital Trustee Co. Ltd. A/C Reliance Regular Savings Fund – Balanced Option and Citigroup Global Markets Mauritius Pvt. Ltd. have been allocated 1,725,450 shares at a price of Rs 165 per equity share (upper end) on January 8, 2010.

While recommending “Subscribe for listing gains”, ICICIDirect’s note on the Infinite IPO says, “The company has reported strong growth over the past year. The revenues of the company have increased 44% in FY09 to Rs 489.5 crore. In H1FY10, the company has already achieved 65% of FY09 revenues. The company has also been able to improve its EBITDA margin from 7.4% in FY07 to 11.9% in FY09 and 18.0% in H1FY10. The company has demonstrated a high level of stickiness with its key clients. A striking example of this has been that the company’s top 5 clients have remained constant over the past few years. The company has survived three vendor consolidations undertaken by a large US telecom player, which highlights the strategic nature of the relationship Infinite shares with its clients. The issue is priced at 9.2x and 9.8x its annualised FY10 EPS of Rs 16.8 at the lower and upper end of the price band, respectively. We have used Mastek and Nucleus as comparables as they have similar topline as Infinite. The stock compares in line with these peers in terms of valuations.”

An Edelweiss note on the IPO believes that Infinite has a potential to deliver 10-15% returns on listing., “Over the past two years ICS has focused on improving its financial performance resulting in margin expansion along-with above industry growth for FY09 as well as H1FY10. We believe company has potential to sustain its above industry growth rate given the low base at which it is operating and high offshore potential. Annualised FY10 net profit estimates is INR 838 mn translating into EPS of INR 19.1 on fully diluted share count of 44mn. At higher band of INR 165/share the P/E stands at 8.7x FY10. Assuming a 20% growth in FY11 on EPS INR 22.9 the P/E stands at 7.2x. Other comparable mid-tier players in the IT services space are trading in the range of 8-10x FY11. We believe ICS has a potential to deliver 10-15% returns on listing,” it says.



Posted By: FutureBull
Date Posted: 05/Feb/2010 at 8:01pm
looks good for those got allotment. what abt new investors? it appears that margin expansion and growth started taking off just 18 months before IPO though it was in business for almost 10 yrs.

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‘The market always does what it’s supposed to — BUT NEVER WHEN’.


Posted By: TCSer
Date Posted: 05/Feb/2010 at 8:22pm
Yes due to reasons already given in earlier comments


Posted By: EMANI
Date Posted: 23/Feb/2010 at 2:26pm
INFINITE ....... enters strategic alliance with MOTOROLA to further develop and support its SMS AND MMS SERVICES.T he stock is up about 7%  and           treading at 203.
 
 
 


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esn


Posted By: hit2710
Date Posted: 23/Feb/2010 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by EMANI

INFINITE ....... enters strategic alliance with MOTOROLA to further develop and support its SMS AND MMS SERVICES.T he stock is up about 7%  and reading at 203.


I think it would be a good idea to focus on the impact of this alliance on the company's future growth and profitability rather than stock price because this kind of pop ups in prices are typical of one day news pheonomenon. Dont know if there is more to it.

Lots of news flows was there when Thinksoft was going great guns and now dont know why it seems to be going only one way, down.



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Stockmarket is a weird place. For every person who buys a stock there is a person who sells it and both think they are very smart.


Posted By: EMANI
Date Posted: 23/Feb/2010 at 5:31pm
Though the details of this tieup are as under, it is a bit complicated to asess the effect of this agreement in absolute terms.

Under this agreement, Infinite will acquire a non-transferable, non-assignable, royalty bearing, worldwide non exclusive license to Motorola`s messaging product solutions, in order to reproduce and prepare derivative works of the based license product for the purpose of developing an application product and related services to be sold as a licensed implementation to Motorola, its clients and third parties. Title to, and the intellectual property ownership of the licensed messaging product will remain with Motorola, while infinite will retain all rights, title to, and the intellectual property of all add on software developed by Infinite.

Additionally, Motorola employees and certain assets and equipment lease directly supporting Motorola`s messaging product solutions business will be transferred to Infinite.

This agreement has come into effect from Feb. 1, 2010 and will remain, subject to the termination clause in the agreement, in full force and effect till the tenth anniversary of the effective date.( source:myiris.com)



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esn


Posted By: TCSer
Date Posted: 23/Feb/2010 at 11:00pm
eXCELLENT RESULTS AS WELL.EPS shud touch 20 for current year & atleast 25-30 for next year.


Posted By: experteye
Date Posted: 01/May/2010 at 12:51pm
good company to own.

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more risk,more profit but have a vision before taking risk,itis all about investment in equities market.


Posted By: TCSer
Date Posted: 01/May/2010 at 4:55pm
COMPANY IS GOOD N HAS EVEN BAGGED A125 CRORE RS ORDER FROM UTTARAKHAND SEB.T ROW PRICE HAS PURCHASED 5 PERCENT STAKE IN THE COMPANY BUT PRICE IS TOUCHING NEW LOWS.

WHY


Posted By: photophobic111
Date Posted: 01/May/2010 at 10:40pm
Other drawback which I found was approx 41% of revenue coming from one single client. This is huge dependence and great risk. It needs to get more client and spread revenues across clients.


Posted By: nav_1996
Date Posted: 01/May/2010 at 9:04am
If you are looking at mid-cap IT company. Look at Zensar. PE of 8, zero debt, dividend paying and moderate growth.


Posted By: TCSer
Date Posted: 12/May/2010 at 8:55pm
http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/buzzing-stocks/infinite-computer-solutions-shinesrobust-fy11-guidance_457365.html

infinite shoots up 18 percent today on great results n great guidance .eps shud touch 22-23 in coming year.management is rock solid with good execution  track record .Smile

seems to be capable of meeting the adage jo kaha wo kara.no wonder t rowe price continues to hold 5 percent stake in the company.

the only worry cud be the re dollar equation.


Posted By: karn
Date Posted: 12/May/2010 at 12:19pm
You may want to go through this and re check. This is what I found while searching for their website.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/iw/2010/01/10/stories/2010011051130900.htm


Regards,
K.

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“Invert, always invert.”


Posted By: hit2710
Date Posted: 13/May/2010 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by nav_1996

If you are looking at mid-cap IT company. Look at Zensar. PE of 8, zero debt, dividend paying and moderate growth.


or KPIT info also could be a good choice at a pe of around 10 and their acquisition Sparta having started contributing to growth and profits since last qtr.
good balance sheet as well.

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Stockmarket is a weird place. For every person who buys a stock there is a person who sells it and both think they are very smart.


Posted By: TCSer
Date Posted: 02/Sep/2010 at 11:42pm
Inspite of good results with an EPS of 20 theprice inw down to 160.Ouch

None of the FII has exited.

When will things improve?





Posted By: TCSer
Date Posted: 07/Sep/2010 at 5:47pm
Emkay is covering Infinite in their conference being held today with a buy call


Posted By: Jaishrikrishna
Date Posted: 07/Sep/2010 at 6:20pm
Originally posted by TCSer

Emkay is covering Infinite in their conference being held today with a buy call


Beware, These are the guys who gave a call on ABAN on 30th april 2008 @3494/- for a tgt of 6065/-, i hope they have learnt from their mistaken analysis matrix.

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Don't Buy and Hold, Buy and Homework / Fish see the bait,but not the hook; Men see the profit, but not the peril.


Posted By: Mohan
Date Posted: 07/Sep/2010 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by Jaishrikrishna

Originally posted by TCSer

Emkay is covering Infinite in their conference being held today with a buy call


Beware, These are the guys who gave a call on ABAN on 30th april 2008 @3494/- for a tgt of 6065/-, i hope they have learnt from their mistaken analysis matrix.


Do the opposite of what they say.


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Be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy when others are fearful.


Posted By: TCSer
Date Posted: 08/Sep/2010 at 11:37pm
Infinite touched 185 today.
\
Promoters are solid technocrats , good long term relationship with marquee clients n FIIS holding 20% stake ,T Rowe price purchased 5% stock at this price only in Feb post listing.

EPS 19 for march 10 & expected to be 23 -24 in March 11




Posted By: TCSer
Date Posted: 03/Nov/2010 at 1:14am
Great results announced with EPS to touch 25 rs in MArch 11.

Interim Dividend of Rs 3 announced

35% CAGR to be maintained

Big jump today to 183 today from lows of 160

Excellent promoters n huge FII holding.

Recent upgradation from Crisil to 3






Posted By: trushik
Date Posted: 04/Jan/2011 at 2:18pm
Hello TCSer ji,
 
Apologies for my ignorance before hand...
 
The stock quote on BSE website gives EPS of 1.66 and 1.69 over last two quarters... how will the EPS be Rs. 25 for FY11?
 
What am I missing?.... I am still a newbie.
 
Regards,
 
 
 
 
Originally posted by TCSer

Great results announced with EPS to touch 25 rs in MArch 11.




Posted By: hit2710
Date Posted: 04/Jan/2011 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by trushik

What am I missing?.... I am still a newbie.


While looking up the results of any company download the pdf file of results posted on bseindia.com. This will give you all the details about results and consolidated results also if the company has posted it.

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Stockmarket is a weird place. For every person who buys a stock there is a person who sells it and both think they are very smart.


Posted By: TCSer
Date Posted: 04/Jan/2011 at 9:24pm
Infinite touched 220 today.

Emkay very positive on it with a target of 250.

Any teddies following it?


Posted By: TCSer
Date Posted: 04/Jan/2011 at 10:51pm
A good call by tater of Fort capital

Accumulate http://www.moneycontrol.com/india/stockpricequote/computers-software/infinite-computer-solutions-india/ICS01 - on every dip, says Aashish Tater of Fort Share Broking.

Tater told CNBC-TV18, "Infinite Computer Solutions is a recent listing. I think this stock has been ignored by the markets. I like this particular story because it is a clear cut synergy between the parent company and Comnet International, USA. If I try to value Comnet International, USA on a longer-term horizon the company can easily grow 50-60% and they are pioneers into the transmission switching and operational support system. We feel there is a lot of potential for telecom as a space. These kinds of peripheries will hog limelight and this is one asset that this company owns and if I look into the recent recommendations of my peer set, they have been very aggressive into the stock with Rs 300-350 level from 2-2.5 year perspective."


He further added, "A company that is available at a decent valuation because it holds few amounts of cash in the balance sheet along with investments, we feel the stock can batter down to Rs 145-150 levels because of market sentiments but it will definitely hog limelight and can easily test Rs 240 even Rs 300 levels, if someone has a holding capacity of one-two years. So a stock has to be accumulated on every dip with a longer-term horizon because Comnet is a gem of an investment from the company’s perspective and their SEZ projects that the company has gone for the capacity expansion for the IT space, we feel the stock can easily get the CAGR. If I recall 2007 Zylog Systems got listed and batter down to Rs 70 odd levels but look at where Zylog stock has again bounce back. The similar kind of stories can be repeated into this midcap IT space."




Posted By: TCSer
Date Posted: 02/Feb/2011 at 9:22pm
INFINITE SEEMS ONE OF THE RARE COMPANY WHICH STICKS TO ITS WORD.JUST EVALUATE THE LATEST RESULTS.
ClapJO KAHA WO KARA

n     An inline quarter with revenues at US$ 49.2 mn (+4.3% QoQ, +42.4% YoY). Margins improved QoQ to 16.7% with profits at Rs 271 mn (+6% QoQ,+33% YoY)
n     Rev growth led by ramp ups in top 5-10 client a/c’s. Co added 3 new clients during the quarter with an increase in US$ 1 mn+ bucket to 15 ( V/s 13 in Sep’10 qtr)
n     Employee addition is in line with co adding ~300 people on a net basis, with qtrly annualized employee attrition moving up ( similar to the trend at peers) to 12.2% 
n     Retain US$ revenue estimates with currency resets (at Rs 45/$ V/s Rs 44/$ earlier) driving a 3.2/5.9/2.5% increase in FY11/12/13E EPS to Rs 24.5/30.2/37.2. BUY, TP Rs. 250
Inline show all the way
Infinite’s Dec’10 qtrs report was in line with expectations across all parameters.
Revenues came in at US$ 49.2 mn (+4.3% QoQ, +42.6% YoY), which essentially
implies an asking rate of 4-14% sequential increase for March’11 to meet co’s guided
revenue range of US$ 190-195 mn (35-38% YoY growth).Operating margins improved
by ~10 bps sequentially to 16.7% despite strong employee addition ( net addition of
~290 people during the quarter taking the total count to 4,468). Profits at Rs 271 mn
(+6% QoQ, +33% YoY) met est (Emkay exp of Rs 277 mn) driven by an inline revenue
/margin show.
Top 5-10 client ramp ups drive growth, revenues from Motorola on track
While revenues from top client were down by ~9% sequentially, top 2- 5/ top 5-10 client
revenues increased by ~5%/36% sequentially. Co management noted that the strong
performance within the top 5-10 client ac’s was driven by ramp ups on iYogi , Motorola
and APDRP contract. Management maintained its confidence of accruing revenues of
~US$ 20 mn from the Motorola contract during FY11 with a step up increase to US$ 40
mn from FY12 onwards.
Tweak estimates marginally, maintain BUY with TP of Rs. 250
While we maintain our US$ revenue estimates broadly, our FY11/12/13 earnings
estimates stand upgraded by ~3.2/5.9/2.5% EPS to Rs 24.5/30.2/37.2 respectively
driven primarily by currency resets to Rs 45/$ V/s Rs 44/$ earlier. Currently the stock
trades at 7.4x/6.0x/4.9x our estimated EPS of Rs. 24.5/30.2/37.2 for FY11/12/13. We
maintain our BUY rating with target price of Rs. 250.




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Share market is nothing but a game of temperament. Success mantra Right Price,Right Business,Patience, Conviction .Do not do panic buying or selling.It may be the only profession where inactivity pays


Posted By: TCSer
Date Posted: 10/May/2011 at 1:11am
Connmanji where are you with your analysis of results fro Infinite?
keenly awaiting that

Bangalore, May 10 (IANS) Leading IT services firm Infinite Computer Solutions (India) Ltd reported net profit of Rs.107 crore ($24 million) for fiscal 2010-11, registering 35 percent year-on-year (YOY) growth.

In a regulatory filing Tuesday, the listed firm said revenue for fiscal under review (FY 2011) at Rs.883 crore ($194 million) was up 33 percent YoY.

Similarly, for fourth quarter (January-March) of the fiscal, net at Rs.30 crore ($6.7 million) was up 37 percent YoY and revenue at Rs.248 crore ($55 million) 33 percent up YoY.

The city-based export firm provides IT services, infrastructure management services and intellectual property leveraged solutions to clients worldwide.

'For new fiscal (2011-12), we expect revenue to grow 27-29 percent YoY in dollar terms to $245-240 million (Rs.1,100-1,125 crore) and net profit of 14-18 percent YoY to $27-28 million (Rs.121-125 crore),' chief executive Upinder Zutshi said in a statement here.

Operating profit was Rs.148 crore ($32 million) for FY 2011, an increase of 22 percent YoY, and Rs.43 crore ($9.4 million) for fourth quarter, up 17 percent YoY.

The company had 14 clients, including four from the fourth quarter.

'We have signed an agreement with a large telecom equipment maker for a joint go-to-market in the telecom service space,' Zutshi said but did not name the client.

The company's global headcount increased to 4,806 employees, including 3,542 in India operations. Attrition stood at 17 percent.

'We have had a strong year in terms of revenue and profit growth, which were higher than the guidance numbers,' Zutshi added.




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Share market is nothing but a game of temperament. Success mantra Right Price,Right Business,Patience, Conviction .Do not do panic buying or selling.It may be the only profession where inactivity pays


Posted By: shontou
Date Posted: 11/Nov/2011 at 11:12pm
Conference Call      
          Infinite Computer Solutions
Strong pipeline across target verticals but extended decision cycle


Infinite Computer Solutions held a conference call to discuss the results of Q2 FY12 addressed by Mr. Sanjay Govil – Chairman, Mr. Upinder Zutshi – MD & CEO, Mr. Sanjeev Gulati – Sr. VP – Finance.
It was a mixed Quarter. Most major clients remained steady. Financial Services Client grew.
Generated Rs 8.2 crore of Free Cash Flow.
Completed 95% of the buy back.
Main challenges include Macro Business Environment, Telecom Wire-line Business, implementation delay in Govt. project.
Most Top 10 clients continue to be strong. Significant drop in revenues from top client.
Signed up with a very large Telecom OEM from China.
Signed new Client for the messaging platform.
Signed up for the product development and deployment of converged messaging platform from the existing client
There is strong pipeline across target verticals but extended decision cycle
Contribution from Telecom vertical dropped to 40% from 45% in Q1. Healthcare contribution at 18% and contribution from Energy & Utility decreased to 10.3%; Others increased to 18.2%
R&D and IP Leveraged business contributed 12.8%; IMS business decreased from 22% to 20%.
Non-linear, revenue share component 14%. Fixed/SoW decreased to 27%. T&M component increased to 59%.
Offshore revenue stood at 38.3%

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Every day, self-proclaimed stock market "experts" tell us why the market just went up or down, as if they really knew. So where were they yesterday?


Posted By: mohitrathi8
Date Posted: 13/Nov/2011 at 6:26pm
Why is this stock so cheap?

Can't exactly understand the business, but the stock seems very cheap as 1/3 or the market cap is cash and then the operating profit/ev is close to 3 times. there is a dividend yield of near 5% also.

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Good stocks can go down for no reason. Bad stocks can go up for no reason.


Posted By: rajnsharma
Date Posted: 13/Nov/2011 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by mohitrathi8

Why is this stock so cheap?

Can't exactly understand the business, but the stock seems very cheap as 1/3 or the market cap is cash and then the operating profit/ev is close to 3 times. there is a dividend yield of near 5% also.
 
Cheap stcoks remain cheap. They are just a fringe players and can be impacted hugely by any slowdown.


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Wall Street makes money by it's activity, while you can make money by your in-activity - Warren Buffett


Posted By: JK321
Date Posted: 03/Mar/2012 at 5:06pm

Where are you TCSer??

No posts for long... Stock price is into double digits now... Views plz.



Posted By: srisaurabh2000
Date Posted: 18/May/2012 at 12:10pm
On FY12 dividend of Rs. 8.5 at CMP 80 the stock seems pretty cheap. They have indicated that the dividend payout will be 30% and PAT guidance of 30%+ for next year. This would imply an EPS of Rs. 33.5+ and a dividend of Rs. 10+.
 


Posted By: wildandfree
Date Posted: 18/May/2012 at 5:16pm
Originally posted by srisaurabh2000

On FY12 dividend of Rs. 8.5 at CMP 80 the stock seems pretty cheap. They have indicated that the dividend payout will be 30% and PAT guidance of 30%+ for next year. This would imply an EPS of Rs. 33.5+ and a dividend of Rs. 10+.
 


I studied this stock a while ago. Could not figure out why the stock quotes
so cheap. Fear that this may be another geodesic kept me out.

Nucleus software too is cheap.


Posted By: srisaurabh2000
Date Posted: 18/May/2012 at 8:53pm
Originally posted by wildandfree

Originally posted by srisaurabh2000

On FY12 dividend of Rs. 8.5 at CMP 80 the stock seems pretty cheap. They have indicated that the dividend payout will be 30% and PAT guidance of 30%+ for next year. This would imply an EPS of Rs. 33.5+ and a dividend of Rs. 10+.
 


I studied this stock a while ago. Could not figure out why the stock quotes
so cheap. Fear that this may be another geodesic kept me out.

Nucleus software too is cheap.
 
Geodesic has had issues and products which I never found anyone use or didn't know anyone working there directly or indirectly. In case of Infinite have't found this to be an issue. Though I haven't checked how their cash is parked but they do indicate 157 cr of cash & 50 cr of debt, which implies net cash of around 107 cr on mkt cap of 380 cr, which also is a comforting factor.
And as I mentioned the dividend yield of 8.5/80 ~10.625% is better than an FD or a  bond. Their guidance also is decent, in FY12 they did meet the guidance that they had given.  
Also the promoter stake has been going up after the buyback and the promoter seems to be buying from open mkt.
 
Nucleus Software is cheap but my sense is that being a product company they will need some time before sales pick up. And they haven't done anything with the cash they have for a while. But again probably it is still better than some of the business who have sold their core businesses and sit on cash. These folks have cash and also the core business.:)
 
Another cheap one is RS Software which has turned around. But suffers from having very high dependance on single client. Even Zensar and Zylog look interesting.
 
 


Posted By: camanoj
Date Posted: 18/May/2012 at 10:59pm
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/stocks/views/recommendations/bullish-on-infinite-computer-solutions-mitesh-thacker/articleshow/13259754.cms -
Mitesh Thaker, Technical Analyst, bullish on Infinite.
 
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/stocks/views/recommendations/bullish-on-infinite-computer-solutions-mitesh-thacker/articleshow/13259754.cms


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Manoj


Posted By: srisaurabh2000
Date Posted: 18/May/2012 at 10:02am
Originally posted by camanoj

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/stocks/views/recommendations/bullish-on-infinite-computer-solutions-mitesh-thacker/articleshow/13259754.cms -
Mitesh Thaker, Technical Analyst, bullish on Infinite.
 
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/stocks/views/recommendations/bullish-on-infinite-computer-solutions-mitesh-thacker/articleshow/13259754.cms
 
There is another report from SPA securities that has come out after the Q4 results - http://www.myiris.com/newsCentre/storyShow.php?fileR=20120518164527715&dir=2012/05/18 - http://www.myiris.com/newsCentre/storyShow.php?fileR=20120518164527715&dir=2012/05/18


Posted By: master
Date Posted: 18/May/2012 at 11:36am

Key vertical for Infinite is telecom, who are the major clients there. Any idea about disclosure and accounting quality?

Nucleus cash is now nearly 95% of mcap.
 


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Someone’s sitting in shade today because someone planted a tree long time ago.


Posted By: srisaurabh2000
Date Posted: 19/May/2012 at 3:31pm

They have clients like Verizon, Tellabs, Motorola, ACS,AOL

Messaging platform tie up with Motorola which if I recall now is with Nokia-Siemens( I think it was transferred but needs to verfied)

Completed BOT for Fujistu in Q4

APDRP in Uttaranchal

Had inidcated signing up a Chinese telecom major in earlier conf calls which I think is Huawei

Do contract staffing for IBM

There is some details on clients and models in this old report from IDFC: http://multivu.prnewswire.com/mnr/prne/infinitecomputersolutions/46302/docs/46302_InfiniteComputers.pdf - http://multivu.prnewswire.com/mnr/prne/infinitecomputersolutions/46302/docs/46302_InfiniteComputers.pdf

Disclosure I think has been ok as far as I've seen them for past couple of quarters and they do the earnings call and also had an analyst day in Mumbai. Probably if anyone attended can share more.
 
Not aware of accounting quality, am poor in that area.:) But they give quiet some details in their presentation and their earnings calls which are there on their website.
 
Do share if you find anything on this one. And in the other cheap IT stocks like nucleus.Nucleus problem is that they did not give any guidance in their earning call. And though they have cash in hand they did not show any clear intention of what they want to do with that. At least in case of Infinite they have indicated that dividend payout will be 30% and hence I like it better at this stage. 


Posted By: camanoj
Date Posted: 19/May/2012 at 12:05pm
No issues with accounting or disclosures. Contract specific terms are not disclosed always but that is understandably competitive info.

-------------
Manoj


Posted By: master
Date Posted: 20/May/2012 at 9:23pm
DSO at 98 days, state utility receivables stuck is more of a one-off. 
Top 5 clients make 73%, concentration risk.
 
Cash/share at Rs 36
FCF of 73 cr
Earnings guidance (USD) 11%, post buy-back Rs 33-34.
This can be worth the risk on dips
 
Any insights (beyond their basic profiles) on management team
 
 
 


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Someone’s sitting in shade today because someone planted a tree long time ago.


Posted By: TCSer
Date Posted: 20/May/2012 at 2:22am
There was some news of order cancellation by one of major clients which caused derating

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Share market is nothing but a game of temperament. Success mantra Right Price,Right Business,Patience, Conviction .Do not do panic buying or selling.It may be the only profession where inactivity pays


Posted By: srisaurabh2000
Date Posted: 20/May/2012 at 3:26am
master, There are some queries raised in an article on the net about the number of subsidiaries and the transactions amongst them - the link cannot be posted here, not sure how much they relevant after the dividend they announced. But the article also questioned presence of a 73 yr old director. 
 
 
There were also concerns around the buyback in which I think promoters also sold some shares.
 
The DSO is also affected due to contract staffing they do for IBM.
 
TCSer, there has not been any order cancellation as far as I'm aware. Fujitsu BOT was completed and hence there will not be any revenues from this client going forward. Verizon orders had come down but the mgmt has indicated that they are picking up. The derating would have been more due to T. Rowe Price selling their stake in Dec.


Posted By: srisaurabh2000
Date Posted: 21/May/2012 at 2:22pm
Mudar Patherya recommends this one:
http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/market-outlook/crazy-not-to-investgranules-infinity-comp-patherya_707104.html - http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/market-outlook/crazy-not-to-investgranules-infinity-comp-patherya_707104.html


Posted By: srisaurabh2000
Date Posted: 24/May/2012 at 11:55pm
Interview with Upinder Zutshi on ETnow:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqzdr1_infinite-computer-fy-13-revenue-guidance-at-30_news - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqzdr1_infinite-computer-fy-13-revenue-guidance-at-30_news
 
Has jumped up significantly though in last couple of days.


Posted By: srisaurabh2000
Date Posted: 02/Jun/2012 at 7:13pm
Presentation from analyst day -
http://www.infinite.com/downloads/Infinite%20Analyst%20Day%202012_Corporate_Presentation.pdf - http://www.infinite.com/downloads/Infinite%20Analyst%20Day%202012_Corporate_Presentation.pdf


Posted By: Value Investor
Date Posted: 29/Jan/2013 at 10:05am
why is this stock falling?


Posted By: maheshishah
Date Posted: 20/Aug/2014 at 10:08am
Infinite Computers deserves a closer look by any prudent investor.
 
 

Positives :


Undervaluation.

A net debt-free, profit-making, reasonable scale company ( FY14 = 1732 cr. ) available at an EV/EBITDA of just 3.13 and EV/Sales of just 0.33 with a stated dividend policy of distributing 30 % of PAT as dividend every year. If company maintains its dividend policy then on FY15e PAT, dividend yield itself works out to 5 % at CMP thereby providing reasonable downside safety.



Strengthening of Senior Management Team over last 1 Year.

Senior C-level executives from prominent IT firms like Wipro, HCL Technologies, NIIT Technologies, Tyntec, Ipass, etc. who themselves enjoy a very good reputation in IT industry have joined Infinite over last one year which gives a lot of credence to bright prospects of the company as also depicts the seriousness of the promoter ( who himself is an alumini & fellow of Wharton School of Business and is a member of the Global CEO Advisory Council for Wharton Fellows program ) to see his company scale up the value chain.


Some of the noteworthy additions to Infinite team are :


Amit Srivastav – who after spending 6 years at HCL Technologies and was its Head-Strategic Alliances & Sourcing Advisory in USA has joined Infinite as President of IT Services business unit since May'2013.


Ravi S Nimmagadda – who till recently was Senior Vice President & Head of BFSI business at NIIT Technologies joined Infinite as Senior Vice President – Sales & Marketing in 2013.


Srirama Srinivasan – who after holding leadership positions in Healthcare & Life Sciences vertical at HCL Technologies, Mahindra Satyam and Syntel and spending 14 long years at HCL Technologies joined Infinite as Senior Vice President from April'2014.


Sheppard Lyngdoh – who after spending 16 years in Infosys and Wipro and was Delivery Head at Wipro till recently has joined Infinite as Senior Vice President and Chief Delivery Officer from September'2013.


Chee Leng Loy - who after spending 15 years in British Telecom & Ipass Inc. and was till recently Managing Director – Asia & Japan at Ipass Inc has joined Infinite's Mobile & Messaging business unit as Vice President – APAC & Middle East Region from October'2011.


Myles Naughton – who was till recently Vice President – North American Sales at c****mark has joined Infinite's Mobile & Messaging business unit as Vice President - Americas Sales from July'2013.


Franz Obermayer - who was till recently Director Sales at Tyntec Ltd. has joined Infinite's Mobile & Messaging business unit as Vice President - European Sales from September'2013.


Nadeem Ladha – who was till recently Director of Sales at Tyntec Ltd. has joined Infinite's Mobile & Messaging business unit as Director of Sales – Europe Region from January'2014.



Samsung Electronics Achieving 'joyn Blackbird' Accreditation.

On 1st August 2014, Samsung became the first smartphone provider accredited with 'joyn Blackbird' from GSMA and wil be offering joyn Blackbird based services on its flagship models including Galaxy S4 and S5 by the end of 2014 in Germany and Spain with subsequent European availability in France, UK and Italy. In addition to such fillip from device manufacturers, telecom operators are now increasingly warming up to the idea of offering RCS & VoLTE services to counter growing revenue-loss threat from OTT applications like WhatsApp, Viber, WeChat, etc.. Three companies including Infinite, Mavenir Systems and Acision are major players in this segment and Infinite has a tie-up with Nokia Siemens Network for selling of its RCS platform/product. In addition, Infinite has also signed three telecom operators on its own (one in Lebanon, Middle East, one in Singapore and one in US) for its RCS platform.


Whether RCS will be a success with the consumers or not that is a different matter alltogether but growing adoption of RCS by telecom operators should be a very good news for all the three major companies in this space including Infinite. This is because, almost all the RCS contracts are on revenue share basis and as the transactions go up, the revenue for Infinite also grows ;– to add, the nature of this revenue is non-linear, i.e., once it reaches a particular scale, it adds more to profitability than expenses ( EBITDA margins of this business unit is 20-22 % ). Hence, target for Infinite RCS is just three or four major operators signing it on a worldwide basis and if it can achieve that then it will add significantly to its profitability. Just to make a note here, Infinite has already inplace SMS/MMS platform (acquired from Motorola) for major telecom operators in US on which it serves 100 mn. subscribers.



Business Model.

Infinite's focus over last four years has been to increase non-linear revenue share to its business. It focusses on products/platforms that are at the end of their lifecycle but are likely to exist over medium term (if not long term) and are generating stable revenues, however, the organization running it is no longer inclined to invest in providing value-add to it. Infinite acquires such enitire platform/product (alongwith tangible assets involved) from the respective organization and supports it as also invests in it to provide value-add, getting in return the revenue share arrangement generated from the product as also IP rights to the value-add it makes to the product. Arrangement with Motorola was on the similar lines and company has invested significantly to derive results from this focus.


To explain breifly company's entire business, Infinite operates under three business units, viz., IT Services (ITS), Product Engineering Services (PES) and Mobility & Messaging (M&M).


ITS which contributes ~72 % to company's revenues enjoys lowest EBITDA margins in the range of 10-11 % whereas PES enjoys 16-17 % EBITDA and M&M enjoys 20-21 % EBITDA. Over last few years company is focussing on increasing its business from PES and M&M which is likely to augur very well for margins and therefore robust cash generation at the company over long term.



FY15 Guidance. No Forex Loss a Positive.

Despite flat Q1FY15, company maintained its guidance of ~1900 cr. revenue with 112-117 cr. PAT for FY15. 180 basis points YoY and 150 basis points QoQ improvement in EBITDA margins was a positive sign in Q1FY15 but, irrespective of such improvement, if we consider the fact that all of company's remaining few hedges are coming to an end in November'2014 and it has incurred a forex loss on such hedges of 18.75 cr. in FY14 (loss of 17.37 cr. in FY13) then PAT will increase by ~15 cr. to 105 cr. in FY15 from this factor alone which makes achieving PAT guidance a certainty thereby enabling the company to deliver an EPS of ~Rs. 27 for FY15.



Payback to Investors.

Company came out with its IPO in January 2010 at a price of Rs. 165 per share. Today, even after 4 years, it is still quoting at below its issue price inspite of it growing its revenues at a CAGR of 27.1 % from Rs. 664 cr. in FY10 to Rs. 1732 cr. in FY14 and growing its EBITDA at a CAGR of 11.5 % from 120 cr. in FY10 to 185 cr. in FY14. Post its IPO, company has done two buybacks (one in FY12 and then in FY14) at average price of Rs. 112 per share and has spent Rs. 42.68 cr. on the buyback alone. In addition, company formulated a policy of 30 % dividend payout in FY12 and paid rich dividends thereafter (except FY14 where PAT itself was low). If we count only dividend paid to pure public shareholders (excluding shares of company's management personnel from public holding) which forms only ~29 % of total shares, then post the IPO, the amount spent on dividend to public shareholders alone works out to be Rs. 28.60 cr.. To add further, in FY13, promoter bought 0.66 mn. shares from open market at average price of Rs. 98 thereby spending Rs. 6.50 cr.


If we go back to the IPO, out of the total issue of 1.15 cr. shares made to the public, only 5.73 mn. were fresh issue and 1.76 mn. shares were offered for sale by existing promoter of the company (Sanjay Govil). If we include both of this and consider the amount received by the company and its promoter from IPO then the amount works out to be Rs. 123.70 cr. out of which company has already repaid to the investors Rs. 77.78 cr. via buybacks, dividends and promoter's open market purchases which is a good 62.8 % payback and reflects strong confidence of the management on prospects of their company.



High Promoter Holding.

Promoter Holding, as at Q1FY15 is at 71.5 % excluding the shares held by the CEO (Upinder Zutshi) of the company considered under 'Public' category.





Negatives :


Customer Concentration.

Company has since inception adopted a strategy of farming (i.e. deepening relationship with existing clients) rather than hunting (acquiring more and more clients) because of which it has inplace long standing relationships with most of its top clients. Its top 5 clients are IBM, Verizon, Nokia Siemens Network, Xerox and Alcatel-Lucent. IBM contributes 52 % to company's revenues whereas Top 5 clients contribute 80 % and Top 10 clients contribute 92 % to company's revenues. Although prima-facie, contribution of 50 % from top client i.e. IBM looks risky but it has to be seen in the backdrop of :


Infinite is working with IBM since inception.


Infinite is one of the only six premier partners for IBM which work for it across the globe. Infinite itself is working in six countries for IBM. It does all sort of work for IBM starting with pass-through work (enjoying 2-3 % margins) to its internal project works and specialised product support works for IBM's clients.


Because of the lowest margins invloved (maximum average 10 %), and comfort achieved over last one and a half decade, Infinite is a critical trusted partner for IBM, loss of which either party can't afford.


So far, company has been able to handle client concentration quite well as it has also weathered the slowdown of one of its top telecom client when 'Telecom Wireline' segment suffered significant slowdown in FY12.



Geographical Cocentration.

Company has since inception projected itself as a US-centric company with base in US (promoter Sanjay Govil and majority of senior management team resides in USA). This is the reason why USA contributes ~89 % to company's revenues. This thing has both, pitfalls and benefits in the sense that in case of any downturn in US economy, company can suffer the most but, at the same time, it is at an advantage while bidding for federal contracts as also is quite insulated in case of adversities like that with 'US Immigration Bill'.



High DSOs.

DSOs are relatively high for Infinite despite the fact that even in worst times it has hardly suffered any significant bad debts because of the top notch financially sound clients it is working with. Major reason for high DSO is the 'pass-through' work that the company does for IBM. Since such work is at very low margin (~2-3 %), company only books margins and doesn't book entire revenue arising out of such work. However, debtors pertaining to 'pass through' revenues are booked in full and therefore much higher than actual revenue booked in the books.

To cite here the example, in FY13, company did 'pass through' work generating actual revenue worth 497 cr. for IBM, but, in its books, it booked only 17 cr. as revenue from such 'pass through' work.



T Rowe Price International selling in the market.

T Rowe bought 2.2 mn. shares as anchor investor at the time of IPO in 2010. Since last two quarters it seems to be selling in the market. As at 30th June 2014, it still holds 1.74 mn. shares which is 4.35 % equity of the company.




Post IPO Revenue Performance :


( fig. in ` cr. )

FY14

FY13

FY12

FY11

FY10







IT Services

1250

961

NA

NA

NA







Mobility

241

198

NA

NA

NA







PES

243

232

NA

NA

NA







Total

1733

1391

1056

883

664




Posted By: maheshishah
Date Posted: 20/Aug/2014 at 10:12am

After my analysis, the thing that haunted me was that despite the facts that I can see in the stock, why is the stock trading at such low valuations as I always consider Mr. Market as perfect while assigning valuations to any stock. Even investor communication from this company was above par so there was no question of market not knowing or suspecting anything with rgds. to transparency. This made me talk to market guys as also to some dedicated analysts tracking the sector. Few reasons that were given for such low valuations were :


Company being heavily dependent on Telecom sector,


Company having very high client concentration,


High DSOs,


Company doing majorly low margin work (and in the books therefore revenues are understated while margins are overstated)


Motorola deal which was called a game-changer at the time of signing, has although given the promised revenue so far but it's value add i.e. RCS is having uncertainty as so far consumers response has been negative.


Apart from Motorola and one other deal, company not able to clinch any significant deal in PES space.



Out of all these, I was not able to find a single reason of management credibility at stake here except one when company's US head was arrested (Neeraj Tiwari) for some bad things in 2011 ; whom company sacked immediately at that time (but still he holds 0.76 mn. Shares in the company). This is the reason why I decided to check this issue from industry sources as also company's clients' side. To my surprise, industry sources indicated it as a company with reasonable management and recent appointments of that of Amit Srivastav and Ravi Nimmagadda were quite known face and enjoyed good reputation. From client side I was able to check with only IBM sources and they had very high regards for Infinite team. In fact in the words of one of the source, he told me Infinite is like an 'extended family''.


However, apart from this, since TED also has many IT industry guys, I would like to hear from TED also rgdg. this as it will help a lot.


Now I will tell you my thought process asto why I have decided to invest in this company :


1). From the feedback I was able to gather from market, industry and client side, I didn't find major negative with rgds. to management quality. Infact the strategy that they are adopting I liked it and the efforts they are putting seemed quite serious to me. So unless there is some major negative that I am not able to see on the management side, I am prepared to take the business risks.


2). Over last many years, I have seen many bad management companies, and the crucial sign of assessing management is how much money they are willing to part with especially with public shareholders. Here, this company seemed to do quite well with two buybacks, promoter's open market buying as well as good dividend in 2 years out of 4 years it has been listed. It seemed a case of promoters doing their bit but are failing which was a good sign to me. Infact, it was nice to hear mr. Sanjay govil in one of the last concall he attended, where he seemed so passionate about Infinite and Infact he gone to that far in saying that he hoped one day he will provide good answer to shareholders of his company's investments in Mobility by unlocking value via overseas listing or something like that.


3). Over last one year, company's CSR activities have increased which is comforting.


4). With management's credibility substatiated, I thought of checking its business whether its real or not in the sense that the top notch clients they are boasting of working with is actually true or not. Here it was not so difficult as its clients are well established corporates in the industry. I found that Infinite's employees are actually working on projects for IBM (infact Infinite has a large dedicated business unit for IBM), Verizon (in Wireless & Wireline both), Clearwire, Panasonic, etc. as also company's claim last year of it building Sentiment Analytics framework as also Healthcare Platforms is real. To add, deal with Mototrola was also real and its tie-up with Nokia Siemens for RCS was real.


5). So now, with management as also its business being assessed as real and reasonable, my focus turned to business risks.. Now, here, one particular thing which I found risky was High DSOs but when I looked at it in the backdrop of the profile of clients it is working with I didn't found it too risky. Second, its strategy of farming which has resulted in high client concentration might actually prove beneficial for the company in the long run because of its focus on platformization of the business.


6). Rgdg. RCS, frankly speaking, I don't see it a big winner with consumers but operators all over the world will eventually move to it to reduce dependence of consumers on OTT applications. I talked with industry guys on this and they said the major issue because of which consumers are not adopting RCS is not the platform/service but the hardware problems associated with it. If device issues are sorted out and if it resides like SMS/MMS platform on handset then eventually consumers will move to it. On this lines Samsung's accreditation to latest 'jaoyn Blackbird' standard is a welcome move and it is expected to be followed up by other manufacturers too. On ground operators are more then willing than before to adopt to RCS.


7). Having assessed Infinite on all above parameters, I looked at its valuations asto are the risks associated justify the current low valuations of the company on the bourses. Here, it will important to note historical multiples assigned to it post listing by the market :




Mcap/Sales TTM

Mcap/Sales Forward

EV/Sales TTM

EV/Sales Forward

EV/EBITDA TTM

EV/EBITDA Forward








FY14

0.24 -0.48

0.18 -0.37

0.18 – 0.42

0.16 – 0.34

1.24 – 2.87

1.47 – 3.21








FY13

0.28 – 0.63

0.21 – 0.48

0.19 – 0.55

0.15 – 0.42

1.05 -3.01

1.04 -2.86








FY12

0.29 – 0.98

0.25 – 0.82

0.25 -0.94

0.15 – 0.79

1.45 – 5.39

0.83 – 4.35








FY11

0.88 – 1.44

0.66 – 1.08

0.87 – 1.43

0.62 – 1.04

5.02 – 8.21

3.56 – 5.95








FY10

1.30 – 1.69

1.12 - 1.44

1.30 – 1.68

1.11 – 1.43

10.01 – 12.97

6.33 – 8.22


Now, what I see is for this low valuations to sustain, either the revenues and/or profitability has to go down substantially or some major negative thing specific to the company has to come. As on date I don't see either of that happening and so what I believe is valuations should correct themselves to trade at atleast reasonable levels from now on.


8). Having said all these, I must admit that I am not going overboard on it as I would have gone with any other company with such fundamentals at such valuations mainly because of the trading history of the company on the bourses.


Please consider my views expressed here in the backdrop of me accumulating the company's shares and therefore they may be biased. Do your own homework and build your own conviction before buying any shares in the market.


Rgds.




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